Oaktech Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) I need to get a new server. It needs to be capable of virtualisation, suitable to run at least 4 VM's serving exchange 2010 on one; corero, real asset management and nationwide cashless catering on another; a test VM for WDS and a temporary VM to allow us to snapshot and virtualize domian controllers one by one. Our current finance server is using 90% of a 160Gb sas drive, and our mail server is currently using 75% of 110Gb partition on a 160Gb sas drive, but our mail user base is about to almost double as we take on 2 more schools. Our domain controllers are currently using between 60 and 90% of various partitions totalling 500gb I would like to see what everyone recommends in the way of storage as I intend to reuse any drives I purchase now to make a san cheaper in the long run. The server needs to be capable of backing itself up to tape as our current solution is already at capacity. This will only be temporary however as within 18 months we are looking to migrate everything to a virtualised system with a san and nas backups. My preference is for HP proliant, but i am open to suggestions. I need to have a recomendation in place by the middle of next week. Edited June 26, 2012 by Oaktech
FN-GM Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 What ever you do DONT snapshot a DC it will cause lots and lots of AD problems. 1
Oaktech Posted June 26, 2012 Author Posted June 26, 2012 What ever you do DONT snapshot a DC it will cause lots and lots of AD problems. Ok, noted...
3s-gtech Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 Personally, I'm looking at a DL385 G7 with Opteron 6176SE as our next VM host. Lots of cores, good initial amount of RAM, plenty of HDD bays if you want local storage for now, and good value. Has internal SD/USB if you want to put the hypervisor onto that. Not the most recent of models now, so may be some good deals going too. 1
localzuk Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 HP DL385 with 12 core opteron processors I'd say. We just bought 2 of them. 1
Oaktech Posted June 26, 2012 Author Posted June 26, 2012 Ok, so i'm looking at the dl385, does seem like a good deal, what about storage? is 10k sas fast enough or do i need 15k? The choice of 2.5" 15k seems limited!
PotNoodleTech Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 Dell T710 is my pick of the bunch at the moment. 1
localzuk Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) Ok, so i'm looking at the dl385, does seem like a good deal, what about storage? is 10k sas fast enough or do i need 15k? The choice of 2.5" 15k seems limited! 10k should be fine for the load you've listed I'd say. If you were really unsure, you could just stick 4 disks in and create 2 RAID 1 arrays to split the load. Doubt it'd need it though! Dell T710 is my pick of the bunch at the moment. You'll be paying quite a significant chunk more per server for similar spec for the T710 than the DL385 G7. Having a cursory glance via the dell schools site indicates about 25% more at least for our server spec. Edited June 26, 2012 by localzuk
jamesfed Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 We have a HP DL165 G7 (little bro of the 385) with a AMD 8 core HE processor here, with a quite a few VMs on it rarely goes above 40% usage - the trick to server virtualisation is always in the storage speed In your case maybe consider a little storage tiering in a HP DL385 G7 - 4x 300GB 10k drives (exchange/ect) and 4x 500GB 7,200 drives (file storage) for example.
tmcd0035 Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 I've had Novatech custom build our last server (and our storage array) and have been very pleased with the price/quality/support. Personally I spec up Opterons over Intel for the extra cores. I'd sas 15k SAS is an exensive luxury. Maybe looking at RAID-50 would give redundancy and spead if you can afford the extra 10k drives?
Oaktech Posted June 26, 2012 Author Posted June 26, 2012 Ok, so at the moment then i'm looking at the following: an HP DL385 costing roughly £4k2, and 5 IBM 10k 600Gb sas drives costing £1k9, total ex vat of £6k1 or Dell t710 with the same drive, network and memory config but 6 cores of xeon 2.4GHz not 12 of opteron 2.5GHz, coming in at 4k. The Dell does not give me option to specify as chunky a processor as the HP.
tmcd0035 Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 Ok, so at the moment then i'm looking at the following: an HP DL385 costing roughly £4k2, and 5 IBM 10k 600Gb sas drives costing £1k9, total ex vat of £6k1 Novatech built me a storage array of 16x 450Gb 15k SAS drives for around £7900 a couple of years back. £6k sounds an aweful lot for the spec/use to me.
localzuk Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 Novatech built me a storage array of 16x 450Gb 15k SAS drives for around £7900 a couple of years back. £6k sounds an aweful lot for the spec/use to me. Remember, hard drive prices have doubled since then... Plus, an array does not include the processing power of a server. @Oaktech - what spec have you put in for that price?
PotNoodleTech Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 You'll be paying quite a significant chunk more per server for similar spec for the T710 than the DL385 G7. Having a cursory glance via the dell schools site indicates about 25% more at least for our server spec. Speak to your dell account manager. The prices on the website are not an indication of what you should be paying. Dell was cheaper than any other for me.
PotNoodleTech Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 Also in terms of Xeon V Opteron you have to ask your self what do you need? DO you need lots of slow cores (Opteron) or fewer faster cores. Another thing to bear in mind is VmWare supports Hyperthreading so your Dual 6 core box suddently turns into 24 available cores. I always choose fewer, faster cores as with an 8 vCore limit in VMWare 8 slow opteron cores may not be enough grunt for a SQL or Terminal server wheras 8 xeon cores will be - but your milage may vary!
localzuk Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 Speak to your dell account manager. The prices on the website are not an indication of what you should be paying. Dell was cheaper than any other for me. The Dell account manager sends me to a 'special' schools site via a link. He won't even deal with 'parts' orders for us...
3s-gtech Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 If you want to go really hardcore, you could shove some SSDs in and see what happens, they're much cheaper than many SAS drives and the controllers will run them fine. Doubt you'd need that sort of speed, and TRIM would break though... Been impressed with the performance/price of Opterons. Got a couple of HPs here with older AMD quads, my single VM host is on a quad core 2376HE, copes fine with 6 (fairly light use like a DC, print server, web servers) VMs at present.
localzuk Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) If you want to go really hardcore, you could shove some SSDs in and see what happens, they're much cheaper than many SAS drives and the controllers will run them fine. Doubt you'd need that sort of speed, and TRIM would break though... Don't do this for SQL servers or Exchange. The sheer amount of IO will kill your SSD off in no time, as it will soon get through all the cell rewrites. One reviewer did a test with an SQL database and went through a sandforce drive in a day... Unless you go for enterprise SSDs anyway, and they'll cost as much as the server. Edited June 26, 2012 by localzuk
Oaktech Posted June 26, 2012 Author Posted June 26, 2012 Remember, hard drive prices have doubled since then... Plus, an array does not include the processing power of a server. @Oaktech - what spec have you put in for that price? it's one of these in DL land: BT Business Direct - HP PROLIANT DL385 G7 2X O6180SE (636071-421) and the dell The Dell Online Store: Build Your System (hopefully that will work)
3s-gtech Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 Don't do this for SQL servers or Exchange. The sheer amount of IO will kill your SSD off in no time, as it will soon get through all the cell rewrites. One reviewer did a test with an SQL database and went through a sandforce drive in a day... Unless you go for enterprise SSDs anyway, and they'll cost as much as the server. Ha, that doesn't really surprise me, they're just not designed for that workload (yet) I guess. Suppose you could have two arrays, one SSD based and one on 10/15k HDDs, and allocate the VMs onto each depending on usage.
localzuk Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 it's one of these in DL land: BT Business Direct - HP PROLIANT DL385 G7 2X O6180SE (636071-421) and the dell The Dell Online Store: Build Your System (hopefully that will work) That price for the HP is very high. LambdaTek have it at £2721 ex VAT. And that Dell link doesn't seem to work - it is sending me to a tower server in US dollars.
Oaktech Posted June 26, 2012 Author Posted June 26, 2012 That price for the HP is very high. LambdaTek have it at £2721 ex VAT. And that Dell link doesn't seem to work - it is sending me to a tower server in US dollars. Ok... I'm going shopping for the DL to see if any of our other suppliers can do a better deal - I'll also call our account manager and see what i can squeeze him for. The dell was the same 5x600gb raid 6 10k drive and 16gb ram + 2x dual network spec, only the processors varied.
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