ConDem Trying to Bait Anonymous Again...

[CAM]

BBC News - Email and web use 'to be monitored' under new laws

 

A record of every electronic communication you make? This will not start well, let alone end well.

[PiqueABoo]

::sigh:: "Anonymous" don't matter, that concept/meme/whatever was bankrupt long before yet another round of 100% predictable dishonour amongst 1337 haxorz (would have thought some of them might have least watched A Scanner Darkly if not read it). The over-stated 'cyber-war', the Four Horsemen are the driving force, all Anonymous do or rather the media's love-affair with them does, is increase public acceptability of more New Puzzle Palaces <= makes whatever bits the Brits do all by themselves, even less the reaction of a bunch of age-independent juveniles seem a bit irrelevant don't you think?

[Arthur]

A record of every electronic communication you make?

If the American government can get away with building the massive Utah Data Center for the NSA, the UK government probably thinks they can do the same?

[PiqueABoo]

That's what I linked ;b "New Puzzle Palaces" points to that and was a ref to the article author's book The Puzzle Palace (about NSA & Fort Meade)

[Arthur]

Oops

 

The Shadow Factory (by the same author) looks like a good book too.

[GREED]

Emails already are filtered and flagged for content... GCHQ has had this power for years.

 

Side note, has anyone played the email game? Years ago before email became so prevalent as it is today, you could send an email with no 'dodgy' content, and an email suggesting you might want to off some political idiot... send both at the same time and see which arrives first, or rather the gap between receiving them... we tried several times and there was a noticeable difference between them!

 

NOTE: I'm not responsible for MI5 swooping though your door if you try this now, this was many years ago!!

[JJonas]

Time to install Tor Browser

[Flatpackhamster]

This is not UK government legislation. It's EU legislation. It's directive 2006/24/EC.

 

It is being passed directly in to law without any Parliamentary debate.

 

Data Retention: Email, Email Monitoring and ISPs « Where is Your Data?

[Miscbrah]

Side note, has anyone played the email game? Years ago before email became so prevalent as it is today, you could send an email with no 'dodgy' content, and an email suggesting you might want to off some political idiot... send both at the same time and see which arrives first, or rather the gap between receiving them... we tried several times and there was a noticeable difference between them!

 

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/GuantanamoBay_450x300.jpg

[Gibbo]

I don't think it's the Government.

 

I think it's Whitehall that are driving these things.

 

We've had two and a bit different parties in power and they are both coming up with ID schemes and monitoring schemes and for want of a better phrase schemes to micro manage the population.

 

Which is a little unlikely unless the Whitehall mandarins are pushing the issue to whoever is the home secretary at the time.

 

Yes Minister was closer to the truth than people know.

[PiqueABoo]

This is not UK government legislation. It's EU legislation. It's directive 2006/24/EC.

 

:: OH NO IT ISN'T! ::

 

If it were that then we've got it already and they wouldn't need any new law would they? This is different and troublesome, hence all the fabulous 'grassroots' lib dem agony.

 

Talking of Lib Dems I wouldn't vote for one, but Julian Huppert's take is quite rational.

Edited April 2, 2012 by PiqueABoo

[tech_guy]

I have used Tor since its inception not that I have anything to hide mind.

[Flatpackhamster]

:: OH NO IT ISN'T! ::

 

If it were that then we've got it already and they wouldn't need any new law would they? This is different and a troublesome, hence all the fabulous 'grassroots' lib dem agony.

 

This is the 2011 evaluation of the 2006 Directive - EUROPA - Press Releases - Commission evaluates the Directive on retention of telecommunications data

 

Here is the press release relating to the reforms of the 2006 Directive - EUROPA - Press Releases - Commission proposes a comprehensive reform of data protection rules to increase users' control of their data and to cut costs for businesses

 

You'll note in the detail the standardisation of data retention by police and judicial services.

 

 

 

That the Lib Dems don't know that their beloved EU project is the primary motivator for this vile legislation is their fault, not mine. If they were better informed about it perhaps they wouldn't be so in favour.

[PiqueABoo]

I have used Tor since its inception

 

You'll be on The List[tm] then.

[glennda]

TBH if it keeps the country as a whole safer I'm.not too fussed if somebody wanted to listen to my phone calls or read my emails - I don't have anything to hide and its not that interesting anyway!!

 

Plus its not as if they can do it Willy nilly they have to have some reasonable evidence to get a warrant.

[PiqueABoo]

Your second link is about updating Data Protection law from 1995 and is nothing to do with Data Retention, except of course they clash... the proposed regulation likely says retention is permitted where it's required by law e.g. Data Retention.

 

That the Lib Dems don't know that their beloved EU project is the primary motivator for this vile legislation

 

Would you mind going and reading The Register's take on this and then explain how that fits with your EU-wot-dunnit case. Note how that and lots of other folk, including the briefing paper that's supposed to be calm the lib dem masses, keep invoking the magic acronym RIPA in relation to *this* story and RIPA is not Data Rentention.

[PiqueABoo]

Plus its not as if they can do it Willy nilly they have to have some reasonable evidence to get a warrant.

 

That not been true for RIPA has it? And remember last summer, the tabloid press knowing where news-worthy folk are right now (coz of where their mobiles were)? Oh yes, that clearly was, and this will definitely be used 'proportionately' for serious stuff like organised crime, proper terrorism, active paedophiles and the like ... you bet... absolutely because we're different from our predecessors and successors... there's no shadow of a doubt.

 

Spending half of what's likely billions on lots of things would likely keep us "safer" (I vote for seriously criminalising failure to use your car indicators when you should). You have to **ask questions**, for instance: How much safer is that then and does it justify the expense? Let's say we do spend a few billion on this and maybe catch an really inept Bad Guy or two - would seem like a bit of a waste of money for such a small return you could have gotten for a fraction of the price with other humdrum methods, so they'll inevitably lower the proportionate bar a bit to help justify the massive outlay and by-and-by you're living in a fluffy on the outside totalitarian state whose inhabitants deserved what they got for being so bleeping gullible.

Edited April 2, 2012 by PiqueABoo

[glennda]

That not been true for RIPA has it? And remember last summer, the tabloid press knowing where news-worthy folk are right now (coz of where their mobiles were)? Oh yes, that clearly was, and this will definitely be used 'proportionately' for serious stuff like organised crime, proper terrorism, active paedophiles and the like ... you bet... absolutely because we're different from our predecessors and successors... there's no shadow of a doubt.

 

Spending half of what's likely billions on lots of things would likely keep us "safer" (I vote for seriously criminalising failure to use your car indicators when you should). You have to **ask questions**, for instance: How much safer is that then and does it justify the expense? Let's say we do spend a few billion on this and maybe catch an really inept Bad Guy or two - would seem like a bit of a waste of money for such a small return you could have gotten for a fraction of the price with other humdrum methods, so they'll inevitably lower the proportionate bar a bit to help justify the massive outlay and by-and-by you're living in a fluffy on the outside totalitarian state whose inhabitants deserved what they got for being so bleeping gullible.

 

But what if the couple of people that billion pounds caught was the ringleaders of 7/7? or caught the next osama bin laden before he could organise another 9/11 thats nearly 4000 people saved. plus the millions/billions it has cost us to go to war and for all those brave service personal who have been killed/maimed in Afghanistan

 

IMHO saving lives and stopping SOC/terrorism is what this bill is designed for not what Mr MP thinks is the gov trying to trace his habits on the internet (which is probably bad anyway)

 

With regards to RIPA I * believe* from what I have read, for any agency to gain access to peoples personal email accounts etc a Judy has to sign off a warrant - similarly if they police wanted to come knocking on your door to search your house or physical post

[PiqueABoo]

But what if the couple of people that billion pounds caught was the ringleaders of 7/7?

 

What makes you think serious Bad Guys will be stupid enough to get caught by net monitoring we all know is happening? I said 'inept', because it seems extremely unlikely that anyone planning a major terrorist act, that's been given serious money to undertake it, would start sending e-mail about it, spend every evening browsing the net for the latest anarchist cookbook, routinely visit anti-US facebook pages or whatever.

 

a Judy has to sign off a warrant

 

You reckon? Read this (actually I'll quote the relevant bit): In fact, the whole point of the CCDP is to facilitate the interception of communications streams in order to obtain traffic data, without the requirement of ministerial or judicial warrants.

 

https://www.privacyinternational.org/press-releases/leaked-liberal-democrat-internal-briefing-on-new-government-surveillance-plans-0

Edited April 2, 2012 by PiqueABoo

[Earthling]

.................

 

and by-and-by you're living in a fluffy on the outside totalitarian state whose inhabitants deserved what they got for being so bleeping gullible.

 

By and By? You counted the number of CCTV cameras in your borough lately. It's here already. I hate these itty-bitty, baby-step, one by one corrosions of personal freedom.

 

All justified by that Old Saw, 'Honest law-abiding citizens have nothing to worry about'......... Oh Yeah?

 

Just my two-pennorth, after a week off with flu.

[aerospacemango]

By and By? You counted the number of CCTV cameras in your borough lately. It's here already. I hate these itty-bitty, baby-step, one by one corrosions of personal freedom.

 

All justified by that Old Saw, 'Honest law-abiding citizens have nothing to worry about'......... Oh Yeah?

 

Just my two-pennorth, after a week off with flu.

 

This is a very good point. If you have nothing to worry about, then you will accept the erosion of your freedom, in this way. It was the same as the ID cards that were mooted in the '80's. If you weren't a hooligan then why should YOU worry about carrying an ID card?

 

I point to the fact that at both times, the Cons have been in power.... Make of that what you will

 

[Theblacksheep]

But what if the couple of people that billion pounds caught was the ringleaders of 7/7? or caught the next osama bin laden before he could organise another 9/11 thats nearly 4000 people saved. plus the millions/billions it has cost us to go to war and for all those brave service personal who have been killed/maimed in Afghanistan

 

IMHO saving lives and stopping SOC/terrorism is what this bill is designed for not what Mr MP thinks is the gov trying to trace his habits on the internet (which is probably bad anyway)

 

With regards to RIPA I * believe* from what I have read, for any agency to gain access to peoples personal email accounts etc a Judy has to sign off a warrant - similarly if they police wanted to come knocking on your door to search your house or physical post

 

What if, some hypothetical situation where thousands die happens? OMG! Give us all mandatory GHCQ linked cameras implanted in our eyes! It'll cost billions (to you) and have total state surveillance, but think of the children!!!

 

The people involved in the incidents you try to link to were well known to the security services and having realtime access to everyones everything would not have changed a thing.

 

Following up with PiqueABoo, Judges arent needed for RIPA, it's signed off in secret. Of the 3,000,000 RIPA requests, 5,000 have be under judicial review. Again excused for "security", but ended up being used by councils to spy on people to check they are in the right catchment area (one of the public lighthearted examples, but its hard to find info on the rest).

 

Anyone that actually believes its about saving lives must have been born yesterday or just be completely indoctrinated with mainstream political PR.

 

After a nice psi-op by releasing the news on April 1st, this will now be an exercise in how to implement total state surveillance. The Conservatives will publicly stay as quite as possible, playing the Whitehall/HomeOffice/Security card and Labour will put up a girls pillow fight with some 'checks and balances'. The sheep and media will repeat the 'nothing to hide' mantra, a few TV shows about the evil internet and its Job done. Isn't democracy great.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Theblacksheep

[gshaw]

TBH if it keeps the country as a whole safer I'm.not too fussed if somebody wanted to listen to my phone calls or read my emails - I don't have anything to hide and its not that interesting anyway!!

 

Plus its not as if they can do it Willy nilly they have to have some reasonable evidence to get a warrant.

 

Without wanting to sound too crazy it's only a fine line these days between what's actually a crime and when your opinions are seen being just as bad.

 

The worry with snooping like this is eventually that free speech and thought get stamped down on if you dare to disagree with the powers that be...

[Earthling]

What if, some hypothetical situation where thousands die happens? OMG! Give us all mandatory GHCQ linked cameras implanted in our eyes! It'll cost billions (to you) and have total state surveillance, but think of the children!!!

 

The people involved in the incidents you try to link to were well known to the security services and having realtime access to everyones everything would not have changed a thing.

 

Following up with PiqueABoo, Judges arent needed for RIPA, it's signed off in secret. Of the 3,000,000 RIPA requests, 5,000 have be under judicial review. Again excused for "security", but ended up being used by councils to spy on people to check they are in the right catchment area.

 

Anyone that actually believes its about saving lives must have been born yesterday or just be completely indoctrinated with mainstream political PR.

 

This will only get worse and sheep will keep excusing and voting for these morons.

 

But not Black Sheep, presumably.

 

[JJonas]

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