Clickview and its legalities

[peteraseddon]

Hi all,

 

Does anyone use Clickview as a DVD library? My wife is an English teacher and she says she has seen it at a meeting in a neighboring school.

 

Essentially it's a library where you can store DVD's in DivX format and stream them to computers on your network. It seems pricey and you get access to BBC iplayer programmes etc.

 

It sounds like an excellent tool as teachers are always losing DVD's or scratching them but how does it comply legally? As far as I was aware, ripping a whole DVD and putting it on the network to stream to multiple classrooms was illegal even if it was for use in the classroom.

 

I just wanted to get a flavour for what people thought on this issue.

 

Pete

[SimpleSi]

My attitude to this is you have a legal bought DVD and are legally allowed to play it back in a school then the technicality of the medium in which you use it is a non-issue as you will never ever get sued/fined.

 

You should make sure that you have sufficient bought copies of a DVD to meet maximum simultaneous playback demand (e.g 3 classes want to watch Snow White on last day of term - buy 3 copies of it )

 

Simon

[newpersn]

We don't use it as a Dvd library. But anything that's been showed on tv we put on there, we did start putting old videos from science on there but never got round to finishing them, (tapes that was showen at silly times in the morning)

[aerospacemango]

We use it too....mainly as a repository for stuff off the telly.

 

I will check, tomorrow, on the legalities, as it's not really part of our department (other than the server).

[glennda]

We use Something called Videoshare (halfway down page) - which was custom developed for us where I work and seem to be very similar to this.

 

We don't actually store any DVD content on the system only videos which are recorded off TV which is allowed to be stored/shared for educationl purposes. The system also has a built in youtube downloader and also a videoconverter (upload to site it converts and you download).

 

It works really well and if you want any more info on it use the contact form on the site.

 

Toby

 

EDIT: We have been using for around 5 months now and staff/students love the system. It is going to be released soon.

Edited September 6, 2011 by glennda

[peteraseddon]

My attitude to this is you have a legal bought DVD and are legally allowed to play it back in a school then the technicality of the medium in which you use it is a non-issue as you will never ever get sued/fined.

 

You should make sure that you have sufficient bought copies of a DVD to meet maximum simultaneous playback demand (e.g 3 classes want to watch Snow White on last day of term - buy 3 copies of it )

 

Simon

 

Yes but essentially you are ripping it to DivX format and then transmitting it over the network- Surely that's against copyright laws.

[robk]

Clickview is designed to record "off air" content, which if you hold an ERA+ licence is completely usable. Clickview exchange has a large collection of very handy films etc that have been transmitted. Its only when you start ripping feature Film Dvds that you start to get into questionable areas.

[glennda]

Yes but essentially you are ripping it to DivX format and then transmitting it over the network- Surely that's against copyright laws.

 

All depends on what is on the DVD - if you are talking about hollywood films then yes its questionable whether you can store if but some DVD's are released with educational licenses (such as science documentarys etc) which you can store on the network as if it where software.

[SimpleSi]

The spirit of copyright is to pay the normal sum to use the object. If I'm paying the normal sum and just using it in the manner intended (1 playback at a time) then IMO the spirit is intact

 

and

you will never ever get sued/fined.

 

Simon

[DrCheese]

With regards to hollywood DVDs, if the films have been on FTA TV then I'd think you'd be ok, as there's very little difference between the TV version and the DVD version. I wouldn't go around putting new releases on tho.

[Templar]

Wasn't there an article recently stating that the ripping of cd's and dvd's that you already own (for the purposes of storage or playback through a different media) was to be made legal?

 

BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Copying CDs could be made legal ...... here it is

 

see last paragraph which you may find interesting.

[localzuk]

The spirit of copyright is to pay the normal sum to use the object. If I'm paying the normal sum and just using it in the manner intended (1 playback at a time) then IMO the spirit is intact

 

and

 

 

Simon

 

It isn't just the spirit of a law you have to comply with. In a school, you are legally and morally obligated to obey the law, even if you disagree with it. Just because enforcement of format-switching has been historically lax, doesn't mean it is ok. Littering enforcement is lax in many towns, but it doesn't mean that more people should litter.

 

The fact of the matter is, extracting a movie from a release DVD without permission from the copyright holder is illegal. Systems like ClickView are aimed at shows and films that have been transmitted over Free to Air TV channels (so, not Sky 1 for example). Anything outside that, and you should be contacting licensing agencies and copyright holders.

 

For now, anyway. If the government does follow through on its change in the law, and that change doesn't just specify consumers (ie. they word it in such a way as to allow businesses and schools to do it too), then this will obviously change!

[difinity]

As far as i am aware Clickview uses a type of DRM so only Clickview will play back the videos saved in it.

[SimpleSi]

In a school, you are legally and morally obligated to obey the law, even if you disagree with it.

On a scale of 1-10 of the moral and legal behaviour (in terms of copyright abuse) that happens in schools - media shifting (of purchased content) has got to be -1.

 

Find a real cause to fight

 

Like littering on the streets

 

Si

[mole]

Use clickview here and clickview 247 to record 6 freeview channels.

Any dvds that do not have a copyright warning on them (or that say you can copy them) can be uploaded onto the clickview video server.

You can extract videos from clickview - exported as AVI.

Any dvds that have copyright warnings - I email the company to get permission to copy them to the clickview video server only not clickview exchange.

Sometimes they agree and do not require payment, other companies eg-classroom video require half the cost of the video or dvd per video/dvd you wish to host, as they cost about £60 a pop we don't bother and staff have to use the physical dvd to view it.

As for feature films, bbc documentary box sets, discovery channel box sets then what is written on the box still applies - it's against copyright law to copy them or break the copy protection.

[peteraseddon]

Well, I have spoken with Clickview and the law sits like this:

 

If you have an ERA+ license and the movie you want to show has been aired on any channel, then you can upload your own, school bought DVD version to the clickview server. In his words "After a few months, almost all movies have been aired on one channel or another, it's just new releases you won't be able to use".

 

Obviously this is in the context of a classroom, and if you wanted to use it for a film club or extra curricular license, then you would need to apply for the appropriate license.

 

Pete

[australiana]

I think there is some confusion here - if your copy has been recorded off TV then you can distribute it within the school or provide a copy (eg via Clickview Exchange) for other schools to use. However, you cannot rip a commercial movie DVD and put it on Clickview even if it has been shown on the box.

[DrCheese]

How would they know tho? Unless the film has been cut slightly differently for TV it would be impossible.

[australiana]

Quite easy to tell really. For a start the TV copy would have the station 'watermark' running right through it. It would also have numerous technical differences.

[localzuk]

On a scale of 1-10 of the moral and legal behaviour (in terms of copyright abuse) that happens in schools - media shifting (of purchased content) has got to be -1.

 

Find a real cause to fight

 

Like littering on the streets

 

Si

 

Nothing to do with a 'cause', it is about doing the job legally. It isn't our place to decide whether to follow a law as it is low in the importance scale or not, that's for MPs and judges to decide. Else, what if my idea of unimportant is higher up the scale than yours? What if I see theft as unimportant? That's why the law exists, so that we have a common set of standards to work from, rather than making moral judgements of our own.

 

Also, as someone else said later, technically, even if you have an ERA+ license, you can only format-shift a film if it has been recorded from free to air TV, not if it has been on TV and you've bought the commercial release DVD.

[australiana]

Generally, it is easy to avoid even considering ripping commercial DVDs. If the movie has been shown on TV, and has any potential educational value, then you can be sure that it has been recorded by another Clickview school who are usually happy to help and upload to the Exchange. One method for making a request like this is to use the Clickview Forum - Clickview UK forum • Index page

[GrumbleDook]

@peteraseddon whoever told you that at ClickView should be looking for another job!

 

The law sits like this.

 

If you record from a FTA channel and have an ERA+ licence then you can stick it in ClickView.

If you rip a commercial DVD and stick it on ClickView without express permission and/or licence from the publishers then it is still illegal at this time.

 

Whilst it might seem like arguing the toss about where you get it from there is an important point to be had. Some films will not be played on FTA channels within a few months as they tend to go to pay-per-view or pay-monthly channels first. The same applies for non-FTA channels ... you can't record Sky Sports, Discovery, etc ... and any sales drone at ClickView or other companies who sell similar are likely to just say that they gave an example and they cannot be held liable for *you* breaking the law!

[australiana]

I'd be surprised if anyone from Clickview would say something like this when it is so obviously incorrect - it is probably just a misunderstanding or hearing what you want to hear. Anyway, as I indicated in my last post it is not generally necessary to even consider ripping DVDs. The Clickview Exchange is a massive resource (over 6000 programs) and you can usually find what you need there. Tweet Clickviewdanny if you are having real difficulties and he will usually come up with a school that can help.

[ClickViewDanny]

Well, I have spoken with Clickview and the law sits like this:

 

If you have an ERA+ license and the movie you want to show has been aired on any channel, then you can upload your own, school bought DVD version to the clickview server. In his words "After a few months, almost all movies have been aired on one channel or another, it's just new releases you won't be able to use".

 

Obviously this is in the context of a classroom, and if you wanted to use it for a film club or extra curricular license, then you would need to apply for the appropriate license.

 

Pete

 

Hi Pete,

 

I've had this thread brought to my attention via Twitter, hope you don't mind me barging in! After some tough interrogation I'm afraid we haven't found the culprit, but if they're out there I can assure you I'll find them. But joking aside, I've not heard anyone within ClickView hand out advice such as you've suggested and wouldn't ever recommend adding a copyrighted DVD to your library.

 

Just to clear things up, you should not add a copyrighted / commercial DVD to ClickView. This is not to say it's not technically possible, but if you want to remain on the right side of the law then the DVD should not be added. Your quote is true that most films probably end up getting aired at some point, but in that case the free to air recording should be added to the library, not your DVD in anticipation of it being aired! Saying all this, we are not the copyright police and are not responsible for what is in your library, therefore it is completely your responsibility should such content find its way onto your ClickView Library Server.

 

As has been mentioned in the thread I'm on Twitter and you can catch me by following @ClickViewDanny should you need me.

 

Danny

[DrCheese]

With any luck the government will push forward with it's plans to make format shifting totally legal

BBC News - UK copyright law to 'be brought in line with reality'

 

Hopefully it will apply to schools as well, then this won't be an issue anymore. Its just stupid how a recording from FTA tv is fine, yet ripping the DVD is not, even it has already aired.