Training etc ... what do you do ?

[pooley]

We have just purchased 30 imac's for a new "mac" suite I am setting up over easter.

 

now myself and the head "like" mac's and can use them

 

The IT co-ordinator likes mac's but can't use them and the other staff .... well ... you know what teachers are like.

 

 

So I was wondering what you guys do for training, on site or off. :?:

 

What are my options, what's the chances of getting Apple involved in the venture for free - we give them positive advertising ?

 

Based in South Wales.

[Dos_Box]

Let me get this straight. You spent lots of money buying kit that only 2 of you can use?

[webman]

what's the chances of getting Apple involved in the venture for free

 

Nil. I can hardly see a school getting 30 macs as advertising.

 

What will the mac suite be used for?

[GrumbleDook]

We have just purchased 30 imac's for a new "mac" suite I am setting up over easter.

 

now myself and the head "like" mac's and can use them

 

The IT co-ordinator likes mac's but can't use them and the other staff .... well ... you know what teachers are like.

 

 

So I was wondering what you guys do for training, on site or off. :?:

 

What are my options, what's the chances of getting Apple involved in the venture for free - we give them positive advertising ?

 

Based in South Wales.

 

Apple rarely deal directly with schools ... they tend to prefer to work with Apple Solution Experts rather then directly ... but there are a few exceptions. This tends to be for large scale deployments ... whole schools or major changes to the delivery of the curriculum.

 

I am popping in to the Apple office today so I will ask who the best contact is now the Julian has moved on from Apple (in case people weren't aware Julian Coultas, the ASE and education guru at Apple UK, has moved on abd is doing consultancy for a few ASEs).

[kingswood]

We have just purchased 30 imac's for a new "mac" suite I am setting up over easter.

 

now myself and the head "like" mac's and can use them

 

The IT co-ordinator likes mac's but can't use them and the other staff .... well ... you know what teachers are like.

 

 

So I was wondering what you guys do for training, on site or off. :?:

 

What are my options, what's the chances of getting Apple involved in the venture for free - we give them positive advertising ?

 

Based in South Wales.

 

Without having to pop in to the Apple offices you could start here for staff who will be tasked with using the Macs every day:

 

http://www.apple.com/uk/education/ati/

 

Then you could look for what are called "Regional Training Centres" and get some staff to look at short courses there:

 

http://www.apple.com/uk/education/rtc/

 

If you PM me I can put you in touch with some people who sometimes offer on-site services such as training but mostly provide RTC cover.

 

In addition to all that, get your Mac head on and start making up some simple documents and presentations to give to the staff on as many aspects of an Apple system as you think you need- comparison of Finder and Windows Explorer; System Preferences and Control Panel; web browsing; email; applications folder and what apps are in there etc. How to log on and save work blah blah. Benefit is that you will be pushing yourself out there a bit and providing support at a different level and also the training is free 8)

 

Anyway, hope that helps a little.

 

Good luck!

 

Paul

[localzuk]

We don't have any macs like that but if we were to introduce a room full, it would be down to me to train the staff during one of our INSET days.

[gwendes]

Let me get this straight. You spent lots of money buying kit that only 2 of you can use?

 

Does seem a little strange here too.. You've just made your life more difficult than it needed to be. Install bootcamp and 'doze them up!

[Roberto]

We have just purchased 30 imac's for a new "mac" suite I am setting up over easter.

 

now myself and the head "like" mac's and can use them

 

The IT co-ordinator likes mac's but can't use them and the other staff .... well ... you know what teachers are like.

 

As much as I "like" Macs too, my sympathies are with the 'other staff'. Either you've left some important parts of the story out here or you're honestly saying you purchased 30 computers because you 'like' them with no idea how to integrate them into ICT delivery and no provision for training staff as part of that?

 

The mind boggles. You'll excuse me if it sounds like I don't have much sympathy for you, because I don't.

 

So I was wondering what you guys do for training, on site or off. :?:

 

As far as I'm concerned, Apple Training is spelt Solutions Inc.

 

What are my options, what's the chances of getting Apple involved in the venture for free - we give them positive advertising ?

 

I'm honestly not sure how you think this would work from Apple's point of view. Convert an entire (large) school from one platform to another and you've got a story. Buy a room full of computers and you've got a room full of computers and no story to tell.

[pooley]

Thanks for the info peeps

 

Don't really want to "bootcamp" them, may go as far as parallels but thats it.

 

We put them in mainly for video editing, music creation, podcasting etc.

 

The kids will pick them up easily enough, but the staff are going to need to be assisted.

 

It is looking more likely that I will be doing a lot of the training myself - so any documentation ould be handy.

 

Looks like its presentation time.

[Halfmad]

Making a mac/PC duel system school is a bad idea if you ask me. Go either one way or another but not duel system. I've got macs and PCs in my school and have no end of trouble because of it. Granted OSX is a lot better than OS9 ever was for networking but I still continue to have compatibility problems between filemaker, office, appleworks versions on each.

 

OSX is also amazingly easy to break once students figure out how to, pray they don't or keep a mac image handy!

 

Macs, like PCs are very easy to pick up and I'd be surprised if you really had to train staff more than the basics. Mac/PC are so similar that most things are almost identical or intuitive anyway.

[kingswood]

Thanks for the info peeps

 

Don't really want to "bootcamp" them, may go as far as parallels but thats it.

 

We put them in mainly for video editing, music creation, podcasting etc.

 

The kids will pick them up easily enough, but the staff are going to need to be assisted.

 

It is looking more likely that I will be doing a lot of the training myself - so any documentation ould be handy.

 

Looks like its presentation time.

 

I think that would be a good idea. Once staff receive basic training from yourself (general system use etc) they will probably pick up a lot more than you think and run with it. Unlike others here, I believe you have made a good choice for the school (considering the goal of using them for video editing etc). That being the case, leverage your investment as much as possible and take it slowly. Repeat training sessions as much as possible and be around for support when things start going wrong.

 

If we all buried our heads when things are new nothing would get done. And by not introducing new things into schools there would be nothing new in schools. Innovate. I admit though, a bit of planning ahead of time would have been advisable. But you have them now. So use them.

 

Paul

[Roberto]

If we all buried our heads when things are new nothing would get done. And by not introducing new things into schools there would be nothing new in schools. Innovate. I admit though, a bit of planning ahead of time would have been advisable. But you have them now. So use them.

 

So with this logic there's nothing wrong with teachers introducing things at the drop of a hat and without speaking to the technical staff that have to make them work?

 

As a big advocate of using Macs where appropriate I'm delighted that someone is trying to do so, but the way it's been approached is shockingly unprofessional and when teachers have done pretty much exactly the same to support staff, the subject of several long rants in various forums here.

[julianc]

This is an interesting thread that sums up exactly what is wrong with ICT, new syllabus directives, teachers/network managers, manufacturers and suppliers!

 

complete disconnection!

 

30 Macs - no doubt purchased becuase there is a need to manage video or music technology en masse. Apple make great consumer experiences - but the actual granular info and access to knowlege for managing a suite like this is limited.

 

It is quite naive to think that Apple will give you a freebie. In Wales you could hook with AT computers Having managed the Apple ASE's for a few years I know them all - AT can get you trained up and give you advice - But they will charge as they have specialist skills.

 

My guess is that you will struggle to set your suite up esp if you want AD integration and iMovie projects being saved in a cute way. Schools need to plan effectively for the management of video files. You also have the impending stress of Adobe product changes (Photoshop prefs have been a problem for many) and the encroaching Leopard.

 

Do you speak to the staff that have to deliver video/music/audio production? Do you understand their needs? Do they understand their own needs?!

 

Do they have any idea how they will teach in the room? what the constraints are? what the possibilities are?

 

I recently went to a beautiful new academy with mac suites and the staff had not been consulted or trained - even the data projectors were maxed out at 800x600 and wouldn't therefore display iMovie. This is fairly typical.

 

IT has absorbed AV/Music but in most schools haven't upskilled IT staff to cope with this. IT departments need to face some harsh facts they need to pay to be trained up to cope with Apple or outsource it to a company that can do the business for them.

 

There needs to be a lot more joined up thinking and a lot less asking for favours.

 

Julian ex Apple Education (sounding grumpy!)

[Dos_Box]

Hi Julian, Sorry I didn't reply to your voice mail last week. I'm off sick at the moment.

[kingswood]

If we all buried our heads when things are new nothing would get done. And by not introducing new things into schools there would be nothing new in schools. Innovate. I admit though, a bit of planning ahead of time would have been advisable. But you have them now. So use them.

 

So with this logic there's nothing wrong with teachers introducing things at the drop of a hat and without speaking to the technical staff that have to make them work?

 

As a big advocate of using Macs where appropriate I'm delighted that someone is trying to do so, but the way it's been approached is shockingly unprofessional and when teachers have done pretty much exactly the same to support staff, the subject of several long rants in various forums here.

 

In the real world it happens a lot. As those threads on here suggest. And it's no different in industry really. It is a problem and I suggested at the end of my response that there should really have been some planning. But the tone of your reply was a little harsh considering the machines are already bought and ready to use. So the best has to be made of the investment. Thus I said he needed to leverage that investment.

 

Unprofessional, or a little naive?

[Guest Guest]

Take the 30 macs back and get 60 pcs

[webman]

Only 60?

[GrumbleDook]

Yeah ... if you get 60 from Woolies from the back of the store from a *very* friendly guy ...

 

Take 10 back and use the money for training.

[webman]

Taking the cheapest iMac at £639 on Apple UK website, 30 macs will cost £19,170. We cant get almost 80 computers for that price. :shock:

[Midget]

do you buy really low spec machines and reuse the old monitors?

[pooley]

FYI

 

We bought the Imac's with 80gig hdd, 1gig ram 1.83cpu for £475 a machine.

 

Not bad in my opinion.

[webman]

No Midget, we have a good supplier

[Roberto]

In the real world it happens a lot. As those threads on here suggest. And it's no different in industry really. It is a problem and I suggested at the end of my response that there should really have been some planning. But the tone of your reply was a little harsh considering the machines are already bought and ready to use. So the best has to be made of the investment. Thus I said he needed to leverage that investment.

 

Unprofessional, or a little naive?

 

Fair comment. As for the "little harsh", maybe that too but anyone who knows me well will tell you I never waste much time with sugar coating things.

 

I guess I was, still am actually, disappointed to see technical staff pull the same kind of stunt we criticise teachers so heavily for pulling on us. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.

 

Buying a suite of Macs to use iMovie does seem like a poor choice to me. I'm sorry but it does. Whatever people think of the ease of use of the various packages on various platforms (and let's be clear here, for my own personal use I would pick iMovie), the fact is that there isn't enough differentiation between iMovie and packages available on Windows to justify purchasing Macs to run it.

 

Purchasing Macs to run Pro Tools type software would be another thing again of course. Here the gap is wide enough to justify people having to learn a new OS and apps.

[john]

If we ever got any, I would be expected to learn it and then teach it, as happens with most things that are campus wide changes

[HodgeHi]

I have recently purchased 26 iMacs and a mobile laptop trolley with 16 macbooks on them. I consulted with the Head about the purchase and he was eager.

 

We had a trial period for a Yr3 group that were learning the iLife suite and they came up with some great results. This was one reason that we purchased the macs. The way the pupils got to grips with the OS and the apps was amazing. They created some excellent comic strips using the included the comic life.

 

Being Intel-based as well means they can be boot-camped resulting in a dual-functioning machine that can double up as an additional mac suite.

 

We are the first Primary School in our district to be migrating to mac Hadrware and the schools for the future are very excited at the prospect and have already been in to show their enthusiam.

 

I say this because maybe there is a high school around your area that has macs and skilled users that would be willing to assist with your training. We are lucky that we have being supported by our local high school. They have been excellent with their support and have also invited our staff to attend their school and utilise their suite for some hands on training.

 

Overall though i feel that if schools keep with the same old then things will never change. Schools will still keep purchasing Microsoft products and paying through the nose for license and cal fees. I have now got a Server 2003 Domain with an OS X server integrated and the mail service running on that meaning i can now distribute email addresses to the pupils as well as the staff. Even if they do not use them it hasn't cost anything in cals so there really isn't a waste of money.

 

Software is also slowly starting to support macs more now as well so it won't just be for the music/video. One of if not the MAIN reason for migration is also viruses and malware. Right now there is no issue, and being a primary school that means a little less to worry about on my part.

 

Just my two pence worth.