Training etc ... what do you do ?

[localzuk]

Taking the cheapest iMac at £639 on Apple UK website, 30 macs will cost £19,170. We cant get almost 80 computers for that price. :shock:

 

I calculate that I can get about 40 PC's for that. Also, £639 is an awful lot - as it is retail. Non-retail you can get the basic iMac for around £500. The price is very similar to Windows PC's.

 

If I were to look into installing a new class full of fat clients, I would seriously be looking at getting mac's due to their intel nature, their low footprint (only a monitor in size), and the ability to use imovie so we can encourage the use of movie making more.

[SimpleSi]

I have recently purchased 26 iMacs and a mobile laptop trolley with 16 macbooks on them. ....

You've got quite a big budget then

 

Being Intel-based as well means they can be boot-camped resulting in a dual-functioning machine that can double up as an additional mac suite.

 

At a cost of £30+ per machine for an OS licence

 

Overall though i feel that if schools keep with the same old then things will never change. Schools will still keep purchasing Microsoft products

Even with free products available such as OpenOffice - schools are quite reluctant to change from Microsoft - they'll keep on buying whatever is standard and is being pushed by suppliers - its just human nature

 

and paying through the nose for license and cal fees. I have now got a Server 2003 Domain with an OS X server integrated and the mail service running on that

What size Primary School are you running there - thats a lot of money tied up in central resources IMHO

 

Even if they do not use them it hasn't cost anything in cals so there really isn't a waste of money.

But if you bootcamped as you said you could/do - then you'd need the cals?

 

Software is also slowly starting to support macs more now as well so it won't just be for the music/video.

 

I first head this phrase 20 years ago - about the same time Mr Gates said Windows xxx would be the fastest and most secure OS ever ever ever

 

One of if not the MAIN reason for migration is also viruses and malware. Right now there is no issue, and being a primary school that means a little less to worry about on my part.

 

Heh - lets be generous and give you that one

 

Using kit thats different from the norm is interesting and exciting and all the other good words.

 

But its not going to hit the rest of us, trying to eek out every last drop of money on an ICT budget of 4k for a small primary

 

regards

 

Simon

PS Any jobs going in your school

[HodgeHi]

The development of ICT within my school has not been seen in around 2 years with very little support. They then employed me to look after the ICT hardware and network for not a lot of cash really considering the amount of work put in.

 

I think the lack of development is where the money has come from. I agree at the moment the cals and licenses from the xp clients being dual-booted need to be used but the hardware being replaced covers those cals but hopefully is just while the migration of remaining apps takes place.

 

I was actually referring to the cals needed when purchaseing exchange as i was told extra cals needed to be purchased either per device or per user if accessing from the outside world. Obviously to roll out mail services for all pupils as well as staff this would of been expensive in the term of a waste of money. I have mentioned before that i do not understand why cals need to be purchased. after all you buy the server you buy the client and you buy the cabling that connects the two together. where the hell does the cal fit in? An extra cost for naff all.

 

The school is indeed a small school which has one ICT Suite of the 26 iMacs. This was the reason we purchased the mabook trolley. admittedly it is a lot of cash, but the fact that they can be utilised anywhere in the school is a bonus for us since it now gives us the ability to have 2 ICT Suites at the same time. And since the pupils would be using them for creative work (iLife mainly) was the reason to go with apple macbooks. we got a reasonable price on all the hardware though so not too bad.

 

I thought that the EOL would actually be longer as well with macs since when upgrades come along (when CPU architecture isn't being changed) they generally run on machines that have quite a lifespan. Tiger installs on and old G3 clamshell iBook. Not natively i admit but can be made to install none-the less and runs fine. So hopefully the lifespan of the machines should go past 3 to around 5 years, saving us a bit of money since we dont need to upgrade hardware for the next OS.

 

But i also do believe more educational software is now being ported to support macs since quite a lot of schools are now taking them in.

 

Right now the OS X server is a mac mini with 512 MB of RAM and doing a grand job at that even net-restoring to 26 clients, slowly yes but still deploying.

 

The school is very ICT dependent. In saying that i mean the ICT is used every day and is utilised at the moment to the fullest potential that the staff can give. The pupils create some decent work in these lessons but i feel that their work can be taken in a different direction with collaborative projects utilising resources such as iLife (just due to the simple method of working with it and creating some good quality work with little effort) and then being able to get parents to view this work either through podcast vids or other means.

 

Work is being carried out across the board where ICT is concerned within our school. Taking in the mail lists for parents to subscribe to to get info about whats coming up or happening at school and website development that lets parents view the pupils work etc. Also maybe create pages of it themselves.

 

I think the investment pays off in ICT when it is used the way you envision it should be used by both pupils and staff. I hope with new hardware the staff will start to get on board. The pupils already are since the macs arrived they race each other to get to them (we only had six at first).

 

I feel that ICT development is going in the right direction in our school and that fact that apple hardware was purchased as opposed to standard pc gear is just a small part of it. It just gives us the option of what to use. The pc licenses would need to be purchased either way so to have the option is great for both the kids and staff, plus the additional software that comes with the gear.

 

I hope i have managed to cover all of the points you made above. I am not trying to defend myself just to point out our reasons from breaking away from the norm. ICT should be fun and whatever makes it fun is all good, isn't it?

 

Anyway post any issues that you may see i don't mind positive criticism as it all helps point out things i may have missed.

[Geoff]

I was actually referring to the cals needed when purchaseing exchange as i was told extra cals needed to be purchased either per device or per user if accessing from the outside world. Obviously to roll out mail services for all pupils as well as staff this would of been expensive in the term of a waste of money. I have mentioned before that i do not understand why cals need to be purchased. after all you buy the server you buy the client and you buy the cabling that connects the two together. where the hell does the cal fit in? An extra cost for naff all.

 

Open Source software can help you out here. For example, for this specific problem have a look at Zimbra.

 

http://www.zimbra.com/

[HodgeHi]

I did look at zimbra but i didn't have the time to thouroughly test it out. I thought since we needed the os x server to manage the os x clients anyway we would already have a mail service that we could leverage. but from what i did see on the website it looked pretty good. do you know if it is web-based only(imap?) or pop3 as well?

[SimpleSi]

where the hell does the cal fit in

 

Its just the way Microsoft choose to licence their server software. (a)+(20*b) == (a+20*b)

 

regards

Simon

[Geoff]

do you know if it is web-based only(imap?) or pop3 as well?

 

It supports access via a web based client, or you can use POP3 or IMAP.

[HodgeHi]

I will check it out soon as an alternative if any issues with the mail service in OS X crop up that i feel are just too irritating to put up with.

 

I will give the OS X mail service a trial run and see how it goes.

[kingswood]

I will check it out soon as an alternative if any issues with the mail service in OS X crop up that i feel are just too irritating to put up with.

 

I will give the OS X mail service a trial run and see how it goes.

 

It's....hard. But worth the effort in the end. Have you looked at Kerios Mail Server? A lot better and a lot more like Exchange. Basically I would get as many resources together as you can about Postfix and Cyrus (O'Reilly I think do a good book on Postfix) and use those to help you get the mail service in OS X Server running and configured as well as possible with the resources and time you have.

 

Good luck- let us all know how it goes!!

 

Paul

[HodgeHi]

I have got the mail service up and running now so i can start my trials. Will post back to let all know the outcome. Whether it holds up to the task assigned. All this running on a Mac-mini with 512MB RAM. XServe coming soon as well.

[Rozzer]

Our local reseller have offered training to staff for free. Worth a shot if you have a decent apple reseller near you.

 

Ross