New to RM and CC3 - Advice for going forward?

[martyarf]

Hi all, have been browsing the site today with great interest. A friend of mine is becoming headmaster at a small school for 3-11 year olds, and they were left in the lurch with the old IT technician/manager taking retirement a couple of months ago without much warning. They haven't had time to do a proper search and so I was asked to come and step in for 3-6 months. I've got a degree in Soft. Eng. and so don't worry, I'm not totally out of my depth, but this is a strange situation...

 

First, the school has about 40 RM CC3 workstations (and a separate admin network that they pay support for with a different local company - why that is not the ICT technician's job no one seems to know). I have never used RM products before, but over the last two days have been frantically trying to get up to speed (and it doesn't help that I still don't have access to a systemadmin account, but that will be mine soon). The only person who knows a little something about the RM system is a full time teacher, and so finding time with him is difficult and he is not a technical person.

 

There are problems all over the place and some of them I'll be able to tackle, and some I won't. I need to rollout a new Flash install (which I'll be able to tackle thanks to some posts I found here). They're still running IE6 (!!!) on essentially all workstations. The main ICT Suite gets incredibly hot during the day, and the scheduled shutdown and reboot doesn't always work. These are just a couple of issues that people have raised to me and that I will be able to fix once I get to grips with how CC3 handles network upgrades and scheduled tasks.

 

Then there are problems that I don't know where to start with. The network is incredibly slow at times, which given the size of the network should not be happening at all (and at this point I can see two separate problems with internet speed and local network speed, which my gut tells me aren't correlated). I've seen a logon for a student take nearly 10 minutes, the machines are "ecoquiets" and are apparently 3 years old.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to give you all a feel for the situation - messed up. What I'd like to ask to the knowledgeable people here is - when you were first introduced to CC3, was there anything - resources etc. - you found particularly useful? Is there anything that I'm going to blunder right into and ruin? Any tips for the immediate fixes (IE6 and network speed especially)? Am I going to spend most of my time on the phone to RM, or will there be things I can diagnose and resolve myself? Given how things seem to be out of date, is there any "must dos" that you can think of?

 

My plan of attack is to spend the next few months while they find a permanent replacement making his/her entry a heck of a lot easier. Comprehensive stock check, licenses all recorded, a ticket management system (just for my own sanity), a proper network map, something like Spiceworks to keep track of network usage to make recommendations for the future, and the construction of a roadmap for the future (the new headmaster is very keen on looking 3-5 years in the future and how they can use the current mess of a situation as a springboard to a new start) - including the possible integration of the admin side and the current "RM" side into one network. Any recommendations about any of this would be much appreciated.

[Boredguy]

Firstly, check to see if the school still has a valid RM Support contract. If so, then you can gain access to the RM Support site, as well as their own forums.

With access to their support site you can download a package for deploying IE7 out to the clients, as well as the information for updating the Usertypes to work correctly with it.

 

I would hope that there is still the original RM CC3 manuals kicking around, they look like A5 booklets with combinding on them, and should be broken down into some of the core features such as User Management, Workstation Management etc.

 

I've been working with RM systems for over 14 years and anything is really possible with CC3 (which is now a bit long in the tooth!)

[Sylv3r]

Sounds like it hasn't been looked after since it was installed - but all is not lost and as Boredguy has mentioned above, if the school still has some sort of support contract through RM or the Local Authority then getting a logon at RM Education - Inspiring Engaging Learning is important and will point you in the right direction if you can't find manuals etc.

 

Where are you based - I am sure a few members on here will gladly give you a hand if your local - myself included.

[Gatt]

Somewhere on RM.com is the Knowledge Library which should have a lot of info about CC3, not sure if you need an account, but you may still be able to register on the site anyway even if your support agreement has run out

 

I actually work (via TUPE) for RM, but unfortunately I have no knowlegge of CC3 and my knowledge of CC4 is limited (this is due to my school being a PITA and not allowing me to go on CC4 courses before I tupe'd over to RM, since the school were not adopting CC4!!)

[Boredguy]

Somewhere on RM.com is the Knowledge Library which should have a lot of info about CC3

It's under the Support option -> Knowledge base

 

You can search it without an account, but most of the support articles are not public access (all the ones with light grey text require valid support level account)

 

As sylv3r said, if you let us know where you are we might be able to help a bit more.

[martyarf]

Wow, thanks for the help (and offers of it). Today I will investigate the manuals - already came across the knowledge base, and yesterday I found out that we do have support (of course, I found this by stumbling across the IT budgets spreadsheet!). I think I might have actually seen the RM manuals in my travels. Sounds like they will be a great help. Looks like my first big job will be a rollout of IE7, will investigate it and prepare today and barring any issues deploy after school is out tonight. At least that gives me the weekend if I mess it up royally. The school is in Bournemouth. Like I said in the OP, we have a whole seperate network from RM which was maintained by a company that has now gone bust, it serves the admin side of things (and yet calendar and email are still served by RM...). Has a whole separate internet connection, server, backup routine. Nobody seems to know anything about that. This job makes me feel like Columbo.

[Boredguy]

You shouldn't have any issues with deploying IE7. Tech Article DWN803855 has the link and instructions for downloading it deploying to stations, and TEC955018 has the instructions on how to create new Usertypes to ensure that the new features in IE7 are configured correctly for users.

[martyarf]

Thanks Boredguy, those links were perfect. Cut my teeth and pushed a trial update on one of the computers along with flash, worked fine, although I gather I now need to update Reader too (they're back on 6... haha). RM set me up with a new login and password for support, found out the books, everything is coming together. To give you an idea of what kind of job this is, today I found enough pieces of computers to make one for myself (apparently the last IT technician didn't have one...???), went rooting through filing cabinets to find a wireless password, and the "office" I have for myself is a kitchen. Weirdest job ever.

[Boredguy]

Your welcome.

As for Acrobat reader, we deploy Adobe Reader 8 out to stations, but we also deploy Foxit Reader 4.3 and have that set as our default PDF application on stations, as it's much faster at opening PDF's that the adobe bloatware.

[martyarf]

Yeah, I use Foxit at home but assumed that it was only free for personal use. I'll look into that because it is so much quicker at loading.

[Boredguy]

We followed a link on the WPKG site for Foxit Reader which took us to the Enterprise version, filled the form saying we were a school and got the reader free, and it even comes as a MSI, so worth looking into.

[martyarf]

Ah, you run WPKG alongside? That's something I'd be very interested in. I'm a little hesitant about really taking the reigns and making changes because of how bog standard everything has been left, and its like an archealogical site, who knows where I might tread on something and bring the whole cave down.

 

Been doing some reading around about upgrading to XP SP3 (currently SP2, of course...). There seem to be a couple of approaches to this: standard download from RM and distribute as a package as normal or slipstream (with something like nLite) into the build and rebuild all the workstations. Given how long I saw a simple Flash install take today, I think I might be tempted to go down the latter route, which will set us in good stead for the future. Okay it's Friday night, I got to stop thinking about computers... Thanks everyone for your help, I'll be bugging you come Monday

[Boredguy]

We're running a mixture of CC3 and vanilla XP/Windows 7 clients, so we're using WPKG for our vanilla package deployment, since we can just use the same msi packages we made and keep the granular deployment method on a shoestring budget

 

Slipstreaming SP3 is the better route but will require a lot of modifications to exisiting package .ini files, as lots of the windows updates are not configured correctly for OS5.3.

Deploying their package to "upgrade" to SP3 is the quickest method and saves rebuilding, but not the cleanest route.

[martyarf]

And I'm back!

 

I have learned one thing so far - never assume anything. Turns out that there have been no security updates applied to either the server or workstation since installation - in 2007. I'm kind of terrified. There are at least 60 hotfixes I need to apply, and figuring out how they intersect with SP3 is going to be... fun. Also, backups were not working. This is going to be "exciting".

[kili]

Ah, you run WPKG alongside? That's something I'd be very interested in. I'm a little hesitant about really taking the reigns and making changes because of how bog standard everything has been left, and its like an archealogical site, who knows where I might tread on something and bring the whole cave down.

 

Been doing some reading around about upgrading to XP SP3 (currently SP2, of course...). There seem to be a couple of approaches to this: standard download from RM and distribute as a package as normal or slipstream (with something like nLite) into the build and rebuild all the workstations. Given how long I saw a simple Flash install take today, I think I might be tempted to go down the latter route, which will set us in good stead for the future. Okay it's Friday night, I got to stop thinking about computers... Thanks everyone for your help, I'll be bugging you come Monday

 

Martyarf. If your deploying XPS3 and your running roaming profiles you will want to deploy hotfix

 

When you try to log on to a Windows XP SP3-based computer by using a roaming profile, the roaming profile cannot load.

 

Kili

[martyarf]

Thanks for the tip Kili, will bear that in mind. Waiting to hear back from management how they want to deal with the fact that we are teetering on the brink of disaster...

 

One odd thing I've noticed is that after a workstation logs on, explorer.exe will hog the processor for about 20 seconds. It's not a huge deal but it makes the log on process about twice as long as it should be. I don't really have time right now to troubleshoot it (and I have been bugging RM non-stop about much larger problems), just wondered if anyone had experienced anything like that before. Seems to happen on all workstations with all levels of user.

[Boredguy]

With CC3, your logon isn't complete until the Logoff button in the bottom right has loaded, and even then the start menu is sometimes still generating.

 

As for the updates, well you can download them from the RM Knowledge base, and they contain the information on which packages will then need to be deployed out to the stations, and the good news is you can normally get away with running multiple updates without rebooting the server between each set. I often have had to do 3 or 4 months worth of "updates" on the server in 1 reboot as we don't have sufficent downtime available with our users online all the time.

[sparkeh]

Hi martyarf,

 

First up, I would make sure that the network is up to Service Release 6.

Next I would check whether the machines are running XP SP3, if not, I think the best thing to do would be to slipstream SP3 into the build area as the RM SP3 package is rubbish (if you need any guidance with this give me a shout).

Then wade through all the updates you missed and allocate them out.

Then I think I would probably work through the machines rebuilding them.

[Butuz]

And I'm back!

 

I have learned one thing so far - never assume anything. Turns out that there have been no security updates applied to either the server or workstation since installation - in 2007. I'm kind of terrified. There are at least 60 hotfixes I need to apply, and figuring out how they intersect with SP3 is going to be... fun. Also, backups were not working. This is going to be "exciting".

 

Ok looks like you've inherited the worst case scenario. Your going to need access to the RM website so you can download all of the relavent service releases, hotfixes, service packs and hardware support packs.

 

Getting the network and workstations up to date is a high priority because without all of the windows updates installed the servers and workstations are extremely vunerable to virus attack regardless of antivirus software. Infact it wouldnt suprise me if you had viruses on the network already, which could explain some of the slow/poor workstation performance.

 

My Priority list would be this:

 

1. Change SystemAdmin, Administrator, Setup passwords. Check if there are any other Administrator accounts created.

2. Make sure you have antivirus and that it is up to date.

3. Install all RM hotfixes, service packs etc. It will take you a couple of days I recon to install them all on the server(s).

4. Allocate hotfixes and service packs out to the workstations (test on a couple of stations first).

5. Run Microsoft Malitious Software Removal Tool across network.

 

Hopefully by now you should have a reasonably up to date and virus free network.

 

Now you can focus on more long term problems such as inventories, network / internet speed, slipsreaming SP3 into the RM build area and rebuilding all workstations. (best way of doing it if you can).

 

Good luck! And if you need more info give us a shout.

 

Butuz

[OakNetMan]

Hi Martyarf, which school in Bournemouth? I manage the IT at Oakmead College and Elmrise primary. If you need any help just let me know and I can drop by.

Dan

[martyarf]

Hi martyarf,

 

First up, I would make sure that the network is up to Service Release 6.

Next I would check whether the machines are running XP SP3, if not, I think the best thing to do would be to slipstream SP3 into the build area as the RM SP3 package is rubbish (if you need any guidance with this give me a shout).

Then wade through all the updates you missed and allocate them out.

Then I think I would probably work through the machines rebuilding them.

 

Thankfully they are running SR6. I've also noticed that a few newer machines that were installed separately in classrooms are running SP3. If you have any advice on slipstreaming SP3 that would be great, I'm resolved at this point to rebuilding everything, it's just too much of a risk to do anything else. Management really want me to wait till the end of term, which will at least take the pressure off. I used nLite a long time ago (I think to slipstream SP2 for my own use), how does it intersect with CC3? I haven't touched any of the building tools. The guys up top are more interested in

 

OakNetMan, thanks for the offer! I've sent you a PM with my whereabouts, didn't want to say it publicly in case of prying eyes.

 

This isn't in the right section but just a quickie: the setup here is Cisco 877 non-wireless router -> hub? (branded Excel but I haven't looked for a model number) -> Zyzel switch -> workstations and server. If I want to add a wireless AP to this that would have access to the server shares, would it be as simple as hooking it up to the switch and turning off its DHCP? Not something I've done before, and there's no kit around that I can test it with, and its not like anyone knows how this thing is set up lol. I dare not touch the rats nest of cables.

[Boredguy]

Download nlite & install it

Copy the xpbuild folder to the local machine (Can be found in the RMRebuild share)

Download xpsp3 standalone installer

Run nlite and choosing service pack option, point to the xpbuild copy on local computer, point to the sp3 update exe, wait for it to complete

Rename the xpbuild folder on the server then copy back the splitstreamed xpbuild folder.

 

Now you can either create new locations within the RMMC, and ensure that the old SP1 and SP2 hotfixes are not applied, or you can just rebuild the station into the same location and it will happily list any package it was unable to install with "NOT_INSTALLED (OS VERSION)" in the computers.ini file

The hotfixes from RM that claim to be for SP2 & SP3 will need a bit of tweaking.

Go into the \server\packages\tools folder and then into one of the folders (such as XP SP2 and SP3 ATL Security Update KB973908), then the version folder.

With there you will find a .ini file.

Edit the file and ensure that the OS line reads as follows OS=5.1.2WS, 5.1.3WS

The 5.1.3WS will ensure that the package gets applied to SP3 stations. Some of the original hotfixes did not contain this value.

[sparkeh]

I know that this was mentioned in the post above but it worth reiterating: **Take a copy of the current build area before you start** If anything goes wrong you can always go back to the old build area.