Fantastic TES Staffroom Post

[Midget]

How can you people regularily sit and read the TES forums .... sorry Staffrooms.... without wanting to stab people?

[Andrew_C]

Maybe our anger management classes were better... :-)

[Midget]

When I worked in the IT industry as an IT systems engineer & later as an IT consultant I had sales colleagues who were paid more, who worked fewer hours, who took the technical staff for granted and sales staff were always treated by our employer as a 'superior' life form when compared to technical staff.

 

That's because Sales staff make money, whereas ITStaff either spend money or stop the loss of money, neither of which are any interest to the managers.

[maniac]

Oh how very true that article is, rings true in a lot of ways.

 

I could write a very long post here explaing how it applies to our school in many many ways, but lets just say I think that guy has managed to write down what I've been trying to say for years.

 

Mike

[PiqueABoo]

But I also get annoyed

 

Well ok, but group psychology is clearly part of one side's job and if they can't stop themselves from finding "out groups" to dump on...

 

Industry Standard #27: If you want anything with a non-trivial cost in time and/or money you first have to put together a very convincing business case.. then using every trick in the book (The Prince) fight that case for several months and sometime years... and if you win it won't be implemented until Q2 2008 because everyone is rather busy working on some critical path decided a year or two ago.

[_Bat_]

@grumbledook

 

sorry if people feel as if I have gone on ... but there are times I really will not sit back and watch.

 

I know you said you weren't going to reply in here again, but what has actually annoyed you? I'm a little bit confused by your posts. I'm not sure if you are responding to posts on here or posts on the TES forum.

[Lee_K_81]

Where's that from Bat?

 

Here: http://www.tes.co.uk/section/staffroom/thread.aspx?story_id=2138547&path=/ict/&threadPage=&messagePage=3

 

Post at the bottom of that page. There are plenty more posts from him/her on that forum elsewhere saying even worse things.

 

And YES, I am saying, very strongly, that technicians have no place whatsoever in education - they know nothing about it - thats why they are just technicians, not teachers.

Awww, can we invite her on to this forum? I'd love to hear her expertise on a number of matters. Shame that one was so old. Would have loved an argument with her!!!!

[GrumbleDook]

@grumbledook

 

sorry if people feel as if I have gone on ... but there are times I really will not sit back and watch.

 

I know you said you weren't going to reply in here again, but what has actually annoyed you? I'm a little bit confused by your posts. I'm not sure if you are responding to posts on here or posts on the TES forum.

 

What has annoyed me is that a teacher is trying to do something that he/she believes will make a difference to students results and it appears that he/she is being blocked by the Network Manager ... and based on limitied information others have jumped in and started having a go at the teacher for presuming to complain about it. Then we get to the point that it becomes and 'us or them' thread ... a pointless thing if you ask me ... as well as a 'Mac / Windows' thread when yet again people with experience of using one system to benefit students are being lambasted by those who don't want it.

 

I agree that in many schools the technical staff are talked down to and not listened to because they are not teachers ... but in the case of the OP (of the TES thread) the NM isn't interested in listening to the teacher because, in spite of the experience with macs, understaning what students would need to do in a production environment and the resources that are available, the NM believes that no teacher should have any input in what computers or programs are bought because he knows best, a viewpoint that is just as stupid as teachers saying they always know best.

[_Bat_]

Ah I see. I was a little confused at first because I hadn't seen the thread that it was posted on, I only saw the message dos_box posted.

[localzuk]

Teachers shouldn't have any input into the ICT decision making process! They have far too much to do with teaching. If they can't even help keep our website up to date by providing content every once in a while then why should they be able to decide what tools they get to use to teach?

 

(I wonder if that reads as sarcastic? It should do)

[TechMonkey]

The only problem with the original post in that thread is that it is only one side. It could be the whole truth and nothing but the truth but who would like to bet that the NM there has actually said somehting along the lines of sorry no money at the moment and we are swamped, I'll get back to you in a few months and we can discuss. OR given her very valid and purposeful reasons why she can't have it. But the OP just hears no and immeadiately stamps foot and says the NM is being mean and unfair.

As others pointed out in that thread she does come across a bit like she wants it done as thats what she wants and is used to and she has had it else where so do it.

But i do know the tpe of NM she is talking about and sometimes they do exsist, but more often then not it's all in peoples heads.

[webman]

Of cuorse, her attitude 'I want to kill the NM' doesn't put her in a good light either. She doesn't need macs, and seems unwilling to compromise with the same software but running on PCs.

[_Bat_]

Awww, can we invite her on to this forum? I'd love to hear her expertise on a number of matters. Shame that one was so old. Would have loved an argument with her!!!!

 

A number of people from this forum and elsewhere (grumbledook and linuxgirlie jump to mind, but there are more) took her down on several occasions with very valid and fair points, but she just didn't get the point (or didn't want to). She ignored half of the comments on there to her and refused to answer questions. She accused other people of contributing nothing but verbal abuse, but then goes on to verbally abuse others.

 

Eventually she left, which was a shame. She made a post on the TES forum which got a lot of attention (big surprise there) which basically said that the forum used to be occupied by profesionals only (she meant teachers only), but since she joined has been bombarded by technicians in the ICT sections (who OBVIOUSLY had no idea what they were talking about with regards to ICT ) so she was leaving (and taking her professional opinion elsewhere I assume).

 

If you do a google for her nickname, someone registered on pr0n sites using it. I wonder who was that cruel? lol.

[GrumbleDook]

The only problem with the original post in that thread is that it is only one side. It could be the whole truth and nothing but the truth but who would like to bet that the NM there has actually said somehting along the lines of sorry no money at the moment and we are swamped, I'll get back to you in a few months and we can discuss. OR given her very valid and purposeful reasons why she can't have it. But the OP just hears no and immeadiately stamps foot and says the NM is being mean and unfair.

As others pointed out in that thread she does come across a bit like she wants it done as thats what she wants and is used to and she has had it else where so do it.

But i do know the tpe of NM she is talking about and sometimes they do exsist, but more often then not it's all in peoples heads.

 

Nope ... I have spoken to someone else who works at the school (another teacher but someone who is also *very* ICT literate) who let me know it was someone they had ranted to me about on previous occasions. It really is a case of he does not want to know what a teacher thinks ...

 

The OP posted using that title to keep it a little tongue in cheek.

 

Like I said ... others, with little information, jumped in and started having a go.

[Jake]

The sheer level of her bitterness and venom towards IT folk is astounding. Frankly its also quite demoralizing. Reading the things she says about what I do as a job choice actually makes me feel worthless. To think that there are people who have such hatred towards what I do as a career really makes a part of me just want to jack it all in.

[budgester]

I had something similar here, so I scoped out hardware and software costs for both Mac and Windows, put them in a document with pros and cons.

 

In fact when doing anything like this I tend to use the skills I got from doing D&T at school to help me prepare a coherent document, i.e. Brief, Analysis, etc.

 

This allows me to layout around a five page informative document which will usually take a morning to do. It also means my SLT have gotten used to receiving information in an almost standard format, that they then feel comfortable presenting to governers.

 

Usually this allows a other people to give input to the solution before the final go ahead is given and funds allocated. I usually include a timescale and the amount of work, any training that maybe required, and any other considerations. This allows me to point back to a document in the future when people turn round and say what they asked for doesn't work as they thought it would, so I can say well you never got any training on this software, or you asked for something that was only going to be used for KS5, so no you can't book it for a KS3 class.

 

Regards

 

Budgester

[GrumbleDook]

@Budgester

 

That sounds like a nice template ... feel like starting a thread about it in the Policies section so others can have a look?

[wesleyw]

So Grumbledook what your saying is the thing we feared most an NM who ignores opinions from people with knowledge in the subject? I couldn't be a surgeon without a lot of training so why would he think that he knows everything about ICT in all subject areas? It gives Techs a bad name and saying what she has said makes me think is it really worth it however if she wants to work in a school where we all tend to get a long she can come to mine! I don't mind what they use as long as they know my abilities don't extend to MACs or Linux and it will take time for me to implement this sort of system I wouldn't be against it to be honest if its for an area that only MACs can do then that is fine a good arguement I can take to the head specifying why it all I need. I don't like bisley98 I have to admit but thats because all they have said is pretty much absolute c@~p I like my school I have to admit I've been very lucky, i suppose they have to a degree as the teachers buy software they want and I install across the network if it can be and the licenses allow however I wouldn't tell a staff member they can't buy something unless of course it cannot work as they need it to. I can't see how that NM has kept their job being that unreasonable. Okay if something is clearly stupid I have to argue that point ub they have never asked for anything I haven't believed would work in our environment they know their subjects they know the sort of software that will allow them to get the points over and give the pupils the best chance to succeed. I would be very arrogant to think I knew their subjects better than them as I would feel they were being arrogant thinking they know my subject better than me. It all comes down to respect for each others specialisms. If certain posters on that network think they are more professional than me and that i'm lazy I would like to know what basis in fact they have for that? Last week I spent getting in around 8-8:30 and leaving between 6 - 7 every evening I know teachers do a lot of extra hours marking as that is in their Job Descriptions but mine does not say I have to be in 10 - 12 hours a day every day I do it because it's needed or will make other peoples jobs easier. How many other industry areas work over time? Quite a few I reckon so why am I being branded lazy and less professional than some trumped up teacher (Bisley98) and not as good at their job I'd like to find them and see if they were so bold face to face (also find out if they actually knew anything in the subject at all).

 

Wes

[Friez]

Basically: See my sig.

[ITPROFESSIONAL]

I'm glad my post on TES provoked so much interest. Whatever your view its good to see people getting involved. I don't think the experiences at our school are unique, however I recognise that it isn't universal.

 

Interesting forums, I'll try and contribute where I can! 8O

[kingswood]

I'm glad my post on TES provoked so much interest. Whatever your view its good to see people getting involved. I don't think the experiences at our school are unique, however I recognise that it isn't universal.

 

Interesting forums, I'll try and contribute where I can! 8O

 

If that was indeed your post (the original quoted at the start of this thread) then I think you are spot on sir.

 

The enemy in schools' ICT isn't the teaching staff- it's other ICT staff!

 

8O

[Midget]

What about ICT Teaching staff? are they just pure evil?

[kingswood]

The only problem with the original post in that thread is that it is only one side. It could be the whole truth and nothing but the truth but who would like to bet that the NM there has actually said somehting along the lines of sorry no money at the moment and we are swamped, I'll get back to you in a few months and we can discuss. OR given her very valid and purposeful reasons why she can't have it. But the OP just hears no and immeadiately stamps foot and says the NM is being mean and unfair.

As others pointed out in that thread she does come across a bit like she wants it done as thats what she wants and is used to and she has had it else where so do it.

But i do know the tpe of NM she is talking about and sometimes they do exsist, but more often then not it's all in peoples heads.

 

Nope ... I have spoken to someone else who works at the school (another teacher but someone who is also *very* ICT literate) who let me know it was someone they had ranted to me about on previous occasions. It really is a case of he does not want to know what a teacher thinks ...

 

The OP posted using that title to keep it a little tongue in cheek.

 

Like I said ... others, with little information, jumped in and started having a go.

 

You see this proves my point: I called so-and-so and they told me it was so-and-so who said that they/he/she wouldn't do this/that/other and so it must be true. I have heard teachers tell me that ICT staff in other schools have enquired about my own ICT decisions. Very weird.

 

If you want to know, ask the source.

 

In this case, we won't know for sure. So it's best to say "work together and sort something out for the benefit of the students, not your ego".

 

:?

[kingswood]

What about ICT Teaching staff? are they just pure evil?

 

Unadulterated

 

I told one that today in fact. They have a weird sense of humour- like asking me to teach Year 13 ICT (Excel and stuff). Freaky. Or chasing me round the school to print off ONE colour sheet of some internet safety design a student had completed. I kid you not. Or just jerking me around with fanciful requests for help with ICT in the school.

 

Damn evil.

 

[beeswax]

What about ICT Teaching staff? are they just pure evil?

I suspect that you're playing devil's advocate here Midget. I have no problems with the ICT staff at our school, apart from sometimes pressure of work leads you to forget to do something you promised to do 20 minutes ago.

They work extremely hard to raise the levels of achievement of their charges, and they fully understand the pressures we're under (perhaps sharing an office helps - maybe you should all try it).