Moving from RM CC4 to Windows Network

[tj2419]

Hi

 

I'm after a bit of advice from anyone that may have gone through the same transition. I am network manager at a secondary school that is currently running RM CC4 network. There is a team of 3 technicians and we have been asked to look into moving the network over from CC4 to a windows network.

 

I am about to start drawing up a plan but wanted to know if anyone has gone through a similar transition? Any advice you have? What you learnt? How long it took? How smoothly it went etc. We have about 500 PC's and 80 laptops that we would be connecting up.

 

Also if you are using a windows network any tools / applications you believe are invaluable and found really useful. (Comparitive to the RMMC, RM Tutor etc).

 

We are going to set up a test environment in the school with a laptop trolley. Could this be achieved by setting up a seperate OU on the server and having the laptops running to that?

 

Thanks for any information.

[irsprint84]

I would move cc3 to vanilla but cc4 must have cost the school a bomb in recent years? hasnt it improved?

[tj2419]

I would move cc3 to vanilla but cc4 must have cost the school a bomb in recent years? hasnt it improved?

 

Not really no. Still endless problems and having to find workarounds that we wouldnt have to on a windows network. We upgraded a couple of years ago and the licences are due for renewal which will be another cost in about a year. Also we want to break the cycle of needing to upgrade when it changes to CC5 in 3 years or however many it is.

[cpjitservices]

I have seen many a network go from CC* to Vanilla - they haven't regretted it for a minute - computers & servers and the network in general works alot faster. You have to support yourself so if anything goes wrong your to blame and not RM but it also beats waiting for a week for RM to help with the most minor of problems. You can get management programs out there that can manage a network just as well and if not better than RM's products do and you also dont have to mess around with what program will work on RM and which won't. I know one school have now moved over completely - the don't use anything like RMMC just AD Management Tools really and they use FOG for imaging and GP for rolling out apps.

 

Best thing to do for a test environment (Depending on licensing of course) setup a Windows 2003 Server in VMWare set it up as a DC. Then build a PC from fresh on XP without any of RM's guff and then build it onto the network and start managing it. Set the server and workstation up how you want with user accounts, GPO's, OU's etc etc and once you are happy - image that PC and roll it out onto a few other PC's on your network and get used to managing it and once you are confident that you can definitely go vanilla build the VMWare server on a physical server and setup your PC's - slowly move all of your machines across to the Vanilla Server. There are a few tools which you can use on the network one I like is Hyena (SystemTools Software - Windows System Management Software) and iTalc is great for Teacher / Admin machines for watching Student machines - in some ways its like RM Tutor.

 

You could look through the Edugeek forum to get a list of management tools and see what you think - it's all on your personal preference.

 

Hope all works out well for you.

 

PS - It's cheaper for licensing also if you can get on MS School agreements

[SYNACK]

2003 and XP? - If you have the liscencing I would look to go to 2008 R2 and Windows 7. Things have got better.

[synaesthesia]

We're in the testing stages of moving from CC3 to Windows 2008R2 and Windows 7 throughout. The prospects are fantastic - performance even on virtual machines is way ahead of the real things -and the real machines are not particularly slow either.

We intend to use (and are currently playing with) Microsoft SCCM for the management side of things along with other standard services like WDS and WSUS - everything is in one place and makes life quite easy from what we can see.There's other software out there (in fact I recall a recent Angry Technician blog citing something that utilises WSUS to send out programs too) so the more information you get together the better. We were looking at a move to CC4 entirely because of only having 2 full time technicians (NM and myself) to manage it. However we've already seen the proof that it's perfectly doable without. We're on a 500 station network.

 

On top of which, the new EES licensing method makes the cost of upgrade very palatable indeed!

[cpjitservices]

I was using 2003 and Xp as an example - 2008 R2 and 7 are by far the best option if licensing permits of course

[sfawcett2]

WE moved from RM CC3 to Vanilla around 6 years ago. No regrets.

We are on XP pro and Office 2003 with 500 machines. Having just bought into EES volume licensing for around £3,500 a year we can now update all machines to Windows 7 and Office 2010, possibly Forefront antivirus.

I'm going to add System Center Configuration manager on (I think) as the CALs are included just need to get server licence (guessing £200).

This is (EES) another major upgrade since leaving RM... don't know where to start at the moment , but should be fun in a geek way!

 

My advise is that if you have decided to move from RM then go Slowly, run another domain in parallel . Do room by room testing as you go, just don't switch RM off until your confident.

I have built my own management tools (visual basic) for PC/User monitoring. VNC is good for remote help. Use wake on Lan, pstools to shutdown and get inventories. Logon scripts to allocate printers and record whose logged on where.

AB tutor a paid for software is good for teachers to view student pc's. like RM tutor.

Active directory policies can control student desktops e.g they cant see the C: drive and Run command removed. AD can also allocate software (msi's) and printers.

Cheers

Steve

Edited May 15, 2011 by sfawcett2

[bossman]

Wow! seems like an RM bashing in full swing hehe!

 

I must have been mad for even contemplating CC4!

 

Migrated to windows 7 platform over 9 straight days from CC3 to brand new servers which we spec'd and built using an Hitachi SMS user storage backend attached to 4 servers using iscsi then using 3 other servers we built and attached to a Sun 7110 for VM storage.

 

We now have 16 servers over 3 Xenserver hosts with HA and a fully functional CC4 network which is very fast and very very stable so I wonder what has happened to all your CC4 networks for them to work so badly?

 

We have deployed various large (3Gb+) packages without a problem using WDS and updating all the workstations using WSUS very effectively, PXE building workstations very quickly which gives us a good turn around of builds if required (not needed yet as windows 7 very stable) injection of drivers into build so easy just like in CC3.

 

RMtutor 5 is being used by all the teachers to which they all sing its praises (The kids hate it because the teachers now have full control over them) I will be building a new Windows 2008R2 network (Virtually of course) which will allow us to test and take exams to further our learning of the other side of the coin but as we have a fully functioning network which suits our needs we will not be changing unless RM go out of business.

 

It did not cost an arm or a leg as we specified and purchased the servers we wanted so only had to upgrade the RM licenses which was a pittance for the tools that went with it.

 

We have run with an RM network for the past 9 years and our school has benefit tremendously and allowed our teaching and learning to progress successfully from a 29% pass rate to 97% 5 a* to Cs last year and this is due to the teachers having a network they can rely upon 24/7/365.

 

I know schools which have moved to Vanilla systems who have regretted moving but would cost a fortune now to go back as the licenses they had would be invalid, just across the road from us is a school which has had 4 networks in the 9 years we have had one RM CC3 which has been very good value for money.

 

Good luck to those moving and I wish you well and I wish you every success but for now I will be staying with RM.

[tj2419]

Thanks for all the helpful responses. Lots to be thinking about and i'm sure i'll be back with more questions Once again thanks.

[cpjitservices]

no probs we are all here to help

[irsprint84]

Wow! seems like an RM bashing in full swing hehe!

 

I must have been mad for even contemplating CC4!

 

Migrated to windows 7 platform over 9 straight days from CC3 to brand new servers which we spec'd and built using an Hitachi SMS user storage backend attached to 4 servers using iscsi then using 3 other servers we built and attached to a Sun 7110 for VM storage.

 

We now have 16 servers over 3 Xenserver hosts with HA and a fully functional CC4 network which is very fast and very very stable so I wonder what has happened to all your CC4 networks for them to work so badly?

 

We have deployed various large (3Gb+) packages without a problem using WDS and updating all the workstations using WSUS very effectively, PXE building workstations very quickly which gives us a good turn around of builds if required (not needed yet as windows 7 very stable) injection of drivers into build so easy just like in CC3.

 

RMtutor 5 is being used by all the teachers to which they all sing its praises (The kids hate it because the teachers now have full control over them) I will be building a new Windows 2008R2 network (Virtually of course) which will allow us to test and take exams to further our learning of the other side of the coin but as we have a fully functioning network which suits our needs we will not be changing unless RM go out of business.

 

It did not cost an arm or a leg as we specified and purchased the servers we wanted so only had to upgrade the RM licenses which was a pittance for the tools that went with it.

 

We have run with an RM network for the past 9 years and our school has benefit tremendously and allowed our teaching and learning to progress successfully from a 29% pass rate to 97% 5 a* to Cs last year and this is due to the teachers having a network they can rely upon 24/7/365.

 

I know schools which have moved to Vanilla systems who have regretted moving but would cost a fortune now to go back as the licenses they had would be invalid, just across the road from us is a school which has had 4 networks in the 9 years we have had one RM CC3 which has been very good value for money.

 

Good luck to those moving and I wish you well and I wish you every success but for now I will be staying with RM.

 

RM was fine when I used it but only thing I m going to say about people 'who regret it moving Vanilla' must have not got the skills. RM is easy as well as Vanilla if you plan it correctly. The advantages of Vanilla for me is licensing cost, choice and vaster help from all over, management is about the same.

[maark]

Would recommend Impero as replacement for RM tutor.

Dovestones AD bulk user helpful for creating/altering user accounts.

[cpjitservices]

and wise password changer - brilliant tools couldnt live without that !! WiseSoft - Resources for IT Professionals

[sparkeh]

Wow! seems like an RM bashing in full swing hehe!

So what's new

 

I see lots of threads like this and sadly people are too quick to trot out the "We/some I know had a CCx network ruled by the evil overlord RMator* who whipped the pupils everyday until they were saved by Prince Vanilla and now the sun shines every day, except the days it rains lollipops and the teachers now ride unicorns to work so go for it!!!!111!!11" kind of lines.

 

Nobody can say that as we don't know the establishment setup or what is best for the school. Only someone who has sat down and gone through the pros and cons *for that establishment* can make that judgement. I have recently gone through 3 major network upgrades, at 2 we decided for CC4 and the other we decided on Vanilla. Why? Because each decision was made in the best interest of that school. Simple.

 

*Edit: I copyright this name for a series of future children's books.

[TechMonkey]

So what's new

 

I see lots of threads like this and sadly people are too quick to trot out the "We/some I know had a CCx network ruled by the evil overlord RMator* who whipped the pupils everyday until they were saved by Prince Vanilla and now the sun shines every day, except the days it rains lollipops and the teachers now ride unicorns to work so go for it!!!!111!!11" kind of lines.

 

Nobody can say that as we don't know the establishment setup or what is best for the school. Only someone who has sat down and gone through the pros and cons *for that establishment* can make that judgement. I have recently gone through 3 major network upgrades, at 2 we decided for CC4 and the other we decided on Vanilla. Why? Because each decision was made in the best interest of that school. Simple.

 

*Edit: I copyright this name for a series of future children's books.

 

Well I'm definitely going Vanilla now. I want a Unicorn!!

[sparkeh]

Well I'm definitely going Vanilla now. I want a Unicorn!!

 

Make sure you purchase the Unicorn 2010 licence first.

[irsprint84]

Why not 2011 too many bugs??

[bossman]

@irsprint84:

 

Again it is the same old "people who use RM don't have the skills" well you couldn't be further from the truth young man, I have been an MCSE for 6 years now with a Degree in Computer science also with other professional qualifications to boot but chose the RM management system way back in 2002 when I took the decision to provide the best service for the school that I could.

 

As I was on my own I needed something which would allow me to quickly get clients and users up and running quickly so I could then concentrate on providing other services which schools at the time didn't have VLE, single integrated network, Remote Sims etc etc and this has gone from strength to strength.

 

I have no qualms about going Vanilla 2008R2 but find it not necessary at the moment unless as I have stated RM go bust or when their management software goes down the wrong route for the school.

 

All a Vanilla system would offer us at this moment is a lot more work. We have very quick log on times for the end users, they have remote desktops which works very quickly as staff are only too happy to tell me about and we have a multitude of open source services which integrate with our RMCC4 network.

 

It works for us and it has cost us very little by way of upgrade licenses and for the tools which we have at our disposal are well worth the money.

 

As for ongoing costs with RM we don't have any as we have no contracts with them we do all the work ourselves which is what we do with a Vanilla system.

 

It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg to use RMs management software.

[irsprint84]

I dont know where you're implying I said that?? I was stating about people saying that they wished if they wanted to go back from vanilla to RM

[irsprint84]

Also before hardware RM licensing was 30k plus if I recall and if you look back at alot of my RM posts I stated that my prievous manager many times was alot better than I was and he was a RM guy, I prefer vanilla but never been draconic to RM.

[Hightower]

Wow! seems like an RM bashing in full swing hehe!

 

I must have been mad for even contemplating CC4!

 

Migrated to windows 7 platform over 9 straight days from CC3 to brand new servers which we spec'd and built using an Hitachi SMS user storage backend attached to 4 servers using iscsi then using 3 other servers we built and attached to a Sun 7110 for VM storage.

 

We now have 16 servers over 3 Xenserver hosts with HA and a fully functional CC4 network which is very fast and very very stable so I wonder what has happened to all your CC4 networks for them to work so badly?

 

We have deployed various large (3Gb+) packages without a problem using WDS and updating all the workstations using WSUS very effectively, PXE building workstations very quickly which gives us a good turn around of builds if required (not needed yet as windows 7 very stable) injection of drivers into build so easy just like in CC3.

 

RMtutor 5 is being used by all the teachers to which they all sing its praises (The kids hate it because the teachers now have full control over them) I will be building a new Windows 2008R2 network (Virtually of course) which will allow us to test and take exams to further our learning of the other side of the coin but as we have a fully functioning network which suits our needs we will not be changing unless RM go out of business.

 

It did not cost an arm or a leg as we specified and purchased the servers we wanted so only had to upgrade the RM licenses which was a pittance for the tools that went with it.

 

We have run with an RM network for the past 9 years and our school has benefit tremendously and allowed our teaching and learning to progress successfully from a 29% pass rate to 97% 5 a* to Cs last year and this is due to the teachers having a network they can rely upon 24/7/365.

 

I know schools which have moved to Vanilla systems who have regretted moving but would cost a fortune now to go back as the licenses they had would be invalid, just across the road from us is a school which has had 4 networks in the 9 years we have had one RM CC3 which has been very good value for money.

 

Good luck to those moving and I wish you well and I wish you every success but for now I will be staying with RM.

 

RM called, they said they want their sales pitch back

[synaesthesia]

As has been said in this thread and countless times before, it will always depend on the circumstances and what is best for the school after a thorough examination of the pros and cons.

We decided against going up to CC4 purely because in the times of limited budgets (We've seen some people here with smaller schools complaining that their budget has been cut - well our budget is 3-4x smaller still!) we'd like to eek out the very last bits of performance where possible. I'll be the first person to say that with limited knowledge, time/resources then RM are a fantastic ally. I've only worked with them for nearly 3 years but I've rarely had cause to complain.

[SYNACK]

We have run with an RM network for the past 9 years and our school has benefit tremendously and allowed our teaching and learning to progress successfully from a 29% pass rate to 97% 5 a* to Cs last year and this is due to the teachers having a network they can rely upon 24/7/365.

 

Woah, Computers and networks do not make kids pass exams, learning does and that is a product of many things including teaching, environment and resources. Yes computers can be important and useful but drawing this kind of comparision is like me saying the global economy crashed because I forgot to pay my credit card bill.

 

Both solutions can be valid, hell if Macs can be a valid solution there is a very deep pool of possibilities but lets leave out the outlandish claims. I for one know that I never got my Unicorn despite my calls to customer service .

[Hightower]

This thread is getting off topic though. The OP asked for advice on which tools to replace the ones currently provided by RM, not to ask for reasons on why he should stick with RM or go Vanilla.

 

The discussion that this is turning into has been had many times before, and it's always the same conclusion that is drawn from it. I just wish people wouldn't automatically link a "we're going vanilla" thread into an "RM bashing thread".

 

Back to OP: We're heading vanilla this year, and so far the only tool we have bought as a replacement is Impero. Other than that, we haven't really hit any "WE MUST HAVE THAT" bits that RM used to provide yet (and for you RM lovelies, please note I said "yet" - who's to say we might roll out in the summer and realise we'd completely forgot something).