Budget

[localzuk]

When my folks bought their first house, the cut back and ate beans on toast. Nowadays people feel buying a house and making do isn't enough. They have to fill it with massive screen tellies, new sofas, new carpets and kitchens and so on.

 

Its the current thing though - feeling entitled to everything. We have people thinking they should be entitled to tax cuts, benefits and the like rather than thinking 'i need to do x, y & z to get what I want' and then if they fail having the benefit system to help them back on their feet to try again.

 

This concept of entitlement is definitely damaging the country, no doubt about it.

[Gibbo]

It surely is. I saw an advert yesterday for a sofa company and even though I'm not usually swayed by any advertising was tempted by the huge discount they were offering. And I rent furnished accommodation! If someone of my high calibre and standards can be taken in, then it must be worse for those who can't resist!

 

And lets not forget that places like Brighthouse and the like weren't around or advertising so heavily on the TV like today. People get into debt so easily these days and its a worrying thing. The concept of "saving for a rainy day" or showing self restraint seems to have died. if my second hand telly busts then I'll do without until I can afford to pay for a replacement. I won't put anything on my credit card that can't be paid off in full when the bill comes.

 

I'm now reminded of Renton's speech in Trainspotting:

 

Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a ****ing big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose a three-piece suit on hire purchase in a range of ****ing fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the **** you are on Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing ****ing junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, p***ing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, ***ed up brats you spawned to replace yourselves. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Gibbo

[MK-2]

It surely is. I saw an advert yesterday for a sofa company and even though I'm not usually swayed by any advertising was tempted by the huge discount they were offering. And I rent furnished accommodation! If someone of my high calibre and standards can be taken in, then it must be worse for those who can't resist!

 

i agree too. when we moved house last october we ended up buying new sofas in january (for reasons other than "we want them" but i wont go into it). yes we've got the 4 years credit on it, but we are already planning on saving up to pay it off in larger sums than the minimum payments. we also have other things to pay off and are doing so. we now know that we cant really buy any more "luxury" items and while we'd love the half price BBQ and half price lawnmower on sale right now near us, we cant afford it, and rather than rack up debt we'll just leave it. i'll borrow my dads mower if we need to cut the grass and go with that until such point we CAN afford it.

i think people seem to think "want new X" so just buy it, and to hell with the consequences, as long as you enjoy it now, who cares if you can't afford food in 6 months. i just cant do that. i know what our maximum is and we never go over it, even if there are things we'd really like to.

[beeswax]

Get Lord Vetinari in, he'll sort it out...

 

I admit that I had to Google that.

[beeswax]

Is this the right room for an argument???

 

No it isn't.

[MK-2]

No it isn't.

 

YES IT IS! I HATE YOU!

[witch]

Imagine what the future currently looks like for an 18 year old in this country.

 

Drives a car? That'll be a few grand per year at least please, just to get insured.

Going to Uni? That'll be circa £30k debt in 3-4 years.

Graduate and look for a job? Average salary (even for graduates) is about £24k

Want to buy a house? Ha ha ha ha, forget it mate. You must pay rent to pay off the mortgage of some bloke that was lucky enough to have taken out loans during the biggest house price boom of all time. It's his pension innit? Your rent, student loan repayments and general living costs will leave you with nothing left to save for your future.

 

Welcome to slavery.

 

Can't argue with the house prices although we practically beggared ourselves to buy our first house. AND there was no chance of our parents helping us towards the deposit which it seems many parents do nowadays.

BUT:

Cars are far cheaper than they were when I was younger - my 18 year old mini cost me £250 back in 1984 - can you imagine what that would be now? So insurance is higher, yes, but the initial outlay is much less - my sons have bought cars for a few hundred pounds many times.

Furniture and other household goods are far cheaper as a percentage of income than they were thanks to places like IKEA and B&Q

Food is cheaper as well.

Expectations are higher - we rarely ate out and the cinema was a real treat - now people expect to be able to do it every week.

Average salaries are no different to when I came out of college - my starting salary was very low, even for those days - I would not have been able to buy a property at all until I was in a relationship and we had two salaries.

[localzuk]

Cars are far cheaper than they were when I was younger - my 18 year old mini cost me £250 back in 1984 - can you imagine what that would be now? So insurance is higher, yes, but the initial outlay is much less - my sons have bought cars for a few hundred pounds many times.

 

£250 is about £622. A £622 car now would be highly unlikely to pass its MOT for long without huge amounts of work.

[Gatt]

I admit that I had to Google that.

 

Lol, He'll all for Democracy and one man, one vote - He's the Man and he has the Vote..

[AyatollahPies]

When my folks bought their first house, the cut back and ate beans on toast. Nowadays people feel buying a house and making do isn't enough. They have to fill it with massive screen tellies, new sofas, new carpets and kitchens and so on.

 

Driving a car? It isn't an automatic right. If you can't afford it, tough. I can't afford to buy and run my own plane but I don't whinge and moan about it. Insurance is expensive for everyone because people can't drive properly. I daily see people driving too fast and too close which results in front and rear shunts. Not to mention people taking their cars out in the snow and ice and crashing everywhere. And that isn't the end of it. Insurers drag their heels and weasel out of paying so injured parties have to seek a solicitor to move things on. Someone ran into me in January 2010 and by April nothing had happened. I took on a solicitor and a week later had a cheque for the car. However, its still ongoing and they're racking up thousands in solicitors fees. Its Churchill by the way who are trying to weasel out of paying, so if you're with them and your premium has gone up this year, its probably because of the £5000 solicitors bill they've got, as well as the £3000 payout for my car.

 

Uni costs? A good idea. It might cut the wheat from the chaff. When I was at uni a few years ago the first year was full of people who couldn't be bothered and didn't want to learn, but got it all paid for. By year 3 our classes were down from 35 to 8! As for the fees, you don't have to pay them back immediately. And if you're on a good job I can't see it being an issue. I don't know any poor doctors, do you?

 

House buying. Again, its not a right. We need to stop the belief that you MUST buy a house and get a mortgage. You spend all your life paying it off then you die and its sold and the money split between your kids, who then blow it on crap. I bought my house for £56k in 2000 (Labour in power). A few years ago it was revalued for when we had an extension and it was valued at £155K. Its now dropped to about £120K.

 

 

Have you checked out the contents of houses of everyone that bought a house in the past few years or are you just making a Daily Mail generalisation? My folks scraped by on Beans and hand me downs, as I expect to if I buy. However, my parents generation were able to afford a house based on just my Dad's income. That's simply not realistic for the majority anymore. It's a struggle now on 2 incomes.

 

I'm not suggesting anyone is entitled to anything. I'm pointing out the horrendous costs that the young are now facing. An awful lot of jobs require people to own a car, not a plane.

 

I agree that far too many go to Uni that shouldn't be going. However, not having to pay them back immediately is hardly a saviour. It just means the debt increases. I wasn't aware that everyone went to Uni to become a Doctor. The majority of folk I know from Uni aren't in high paying jobs, they are in average salary jobs. Are you a Doctor?

 

No, owning a house is not a right. But are you suggesting it's fair for the lucky ones that bought BTLs during the boom years to expect the young to pay their mortgages for them? You bought your house for £56k mate. How would you feel if you had to pay double that now? Could you afford it? Will you admit you were lucky enough to buy before the boom and were therefore very lucky indeed?

 

I'd be more than happy to carry on renting until I can afford to buy a property outright, but the landlords have renters over a barrel in this country. The letting agents are even worse. Want to renew your paltry 6 month AST? That'll be another £60 please. Want to move out? That'll be another £60 for us to make an inspection of the property sir. Just got nice and settled and ready to renew for another 6 months? Sorry Sir, the landlord is selling up.

 

(Perhaps if localzuk's european dream comes true, we might get better rights as renters) I might even change my views if that happens. I'm not holding my breath though.

[Gatt]

Have you checked out the contents of houses of everyone that bought a house in the past few years or are you just making a Daily Mail generalisation? My folks scraped by on Beans and hand me downs, as I expect to if I buy. However, my parents generation were able to afford a house based on just my Dad's income. That's simply not realistic for the majority anymore. It's a struggle now on 2 incomes.

 

It's not hard to do - just a quick walk down the street and virtually every other house has a mahoosive TV mounted to the wall near the window - no doubt most of them will have an XBOX/PS3 with a plethora of games.. Also, a vast majority of these houses are owned/rented by people claiming every friggin benefit going judging from the nice shiny BMW/MERC/Lexus partked outside 24/7.. Whilst I get up out of bed at about 5am and go to work in a car that has onyl barely scraped through its MOT, is running on vapours most of thiem due to the escalating price of fuel, only to see all my hard-earned cash get snatched by either the tax man, insurer or shop (which I then have to pay yet more tax on..) I am then left with about £50-£100 for me, my wife and my 3yo son to live off of for the next 4 weeks..

 

I'm not suggesting anyone is entitled to anything. I'm pointing out the horrendous costs that the young are now facing. An awful lot of jobs require people to own a car, not a plane.

What costs are young people facing? the extra 2.5% in VAT on their XBOX games?? Most of them round here are living with their lazy, bone-idle parents sitting with thier nice flashy TV's, XBOXs, etc having never worked a day in their lives but get all the "benefits"..

 

I agree that far too many go to Uni that shouldn't be going. However, not having to pay them back immediately is hardly a saviour. It just means the debt increases. I wasn't aware that everyone went to Uni to become a Doctor. The majority of folk I know from Uni aren't in high paying jobs, they are in average salary jobs. Are you a Doctor?

I'll agree with out on this one...

 

No, owning a house is not a right. But are you suggesting it's fair for the lucky ones that bought BTLs during the boom years to expect the young to pay their mortgages for them? You bought your house for £56k mate. How would you feel if you had to pay double that now? Could you afford it? Will you admit you were lucky enough to buy before the boom and were therefore very lucky indeed?

cannot comment on this one.... We own the house outright....

 

I'd be more than happy to carry on renting until I can afford to buy a property outright, but the landlords have renters over a barrel in this country. The letting agents are even worse. Want to renew your paltry 6 month AST? That'll be another £60 please. Want to move out? That'll be another £60 for us to make an inspection of the property sir. Just got nice and settled and ready to renew for another 6 months? Sorry Sir, the landlord is selling up.

as my previous comment about not commenting on your comments...

 

(Perhaps if localzuk's european dream comes true, we might get better rights as renters) I might even change my views if that happens. I'm not holding my breath though.

Neither will I.. you seem quite firm in your views...

[Gibbo]

How would you feel if you had to pay double that now? Could you afford it? Will you admit you were lucky enough to buy before the boom and were therefore very lucky indeed?

 

1) A bit peeved but that's life - prices and things change, and you have to accept it. I bought a bottle of whisky for £18 last week, then a few days later it had been reduced to £10

2) Yes

3) Yes, although I wish I'd had the foresight back then to buy more than one house! There was no indication of any "boom" you talk about, nobody knew how long it would last or where prices would go. We bought the house because we wanted something bigger in a different area, it wasn't a case of "ooh, the house prices are going to ROCKET in six months time lets capitalise on it."

 

The point is, people need to change their perceptions of life. Like a few have recently said - people now take too many treats and special things for granted and are starting to get arsey just because they suddenly can't afford it. The 21st century has made many things affordable (a toaster or kettle for £6? That certainly wasn't the case 20 years ago), but at the same time made some things unaffordable.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Gibbo

[localzuk]

Of the people I know who have bought houses recently, yes, they have filled them with stuff. New TV, new sofa, new bed, new washing machine, etc... What many used to do in the last 20 years was to take out a slightly larger mortgage than needed, keeping some of their own money aside and then using that to furnish it, expecting the value of the house to keep going up and make the larger mortgage a non-issue.

 

It is coming back to bite a lot of people in the rear now though.

[Sirbendy]

We're looking at buying now...Renting is OK, but..currently paying £545/m down a black hole is annoying me. Plus where we are has no garden, is a git to heat, bills are huge etc.

 

Went to HSBC, had a chat..on our combined income (just over £30k), using the "affordability" method, not the "x times your salary" malarkey, using our housekeeping spreadsheet etc...they've offered us a mortgage of £104k over 30 years. Fortunately I have around 30k sat in an ISA whose sole purpose is to act as a deposit..

 

Scary. But then, it has been pointed out that I'd be paying towards an end, not "losing" the money as we do now, and besides, children are an even bigger commitment than a mortgage - from that view, it's less alarming.

 

We live as frugally as we can (within reason), and rarely buy new. My gadget count is I suspect low in geek-terms..and I don't even have a TV license.

 

I'm going to have a chat to an IFA who was recommended to me...I'll feel better with an impartial viewpoint.

 

Furnishing wise - 90% of my furniture is secondhand/free, my TV is an ancient 21" trinitron, etc etc.

[HallX]

I'm going to have a chat to an IFA who was recommended to me...I'll feel better with an impartial viewpoint.

 

Good idea. Dont forget though, if you drop on a Fixed\Capped rate etc for x yrs to review it 2-3 months BEFORE the rate ends for a better deal. I may be trying to teach granny, but been caught out with this myself in the past.

[sted]

the thing with cars is its not much of a choice anymore even IF i worked in doncaster centre its £5 a day return on bus (4 miles approx) so thats £25 a week (now granted when i do go to town i go on train but thats 2 miels of walking but gets it down to £1.50 ). In my current job there is no way i could use public transport i go from home to 2 or 3 sites in leeds a day it just isnt possible to do it (i have tried and on the ODD day it has worked but thats been when ive been on 1 site all day and have got the 1st train and its cost me £20ish) so i would say i NEED a car and until electric cars have a sensible range (say 200 miles min) and dont take 8 hours to charge im stuck with petrol/diesel and have no choice

 

houses have gone up stupidly my parents paid <20k for their house its now worth 100+ish i dont earn 5* what dad did so they have gone up out of proportion to earnings. Now i am looking at getting a house with depost/mortgage ive got 130k but its not going to be paid back until i retire. The problem with renting is you are at least in my opinion throwing money away you never own anything and will pay forever more at least by buying you have something to show for it at the end