Respect

[mattx]

Thought I would raise this question as at the moment I am being 'told off' by admin staff for using naughty language. That I have apologised to [ well to anyone who complained, none actually straight to me ]

I have been told by the admin staff that I have to 'respect' the admins etc etc.

Now I am not sure how others have been bought up in this world but in my book to get respect of anyone you have to earn it first. I certainly would not expect anyone to respect me straight away just because I was an admin etc.

I don't know the site admins / staff from Adam, so why would I respect them without knowing them ?

So my question as a general topic is - Do you respect someone just because they tell you so or do you think it has to be earned first ?

[russdev]

Lets put it like this if someone invites you into their house do you go and switch on the tv, go through their draws etc.

 

If they ask you not to swear in front of their kids you respect that...

 

As you have took this public will comment you were asked to not to swear by member of the staff you replied no....

 

If student came into your room at work swore and you asked them not to and they said no that student would be in trouble.

 

If had problem with staff member you should of pm'd site admins who remain independent.

 

Also respect should be there in life in my mind in life you have respect for everyone until they prove otherwise...

 

Russ

 

Russ

[_Bat_]

Ageed with everything Russ said.

 

If you are on your own property then you can feel free to swear as much as you like, others that are on your property can feel free to leave if they don't like it.

 

But when you are at school, in most schools it is one of the rules that there is no swearing (i've never known this to exclude staff) and other people don't have the opportunity to leave if they don't like it as they work there.

 

I personally frown upon swearing anyway whether it is at work or anywhere else, so fortunately I have never been tempted to swear in front of anyone else where it could get me into trouble. I think this is a good habit to get into as it can potentially save a lot of accidents and grief in the future.

[chrbb]

James

You're not from the midlands area are you? I'm sure I did my city and guilds exams with a James Sumner at Derby college.

[chrbb]

well that's that sorted then, not many people I know went to derby college and survived to tell the tale!

[mattx]

I am not asking about going into someones home & swearing - I am asking about respect.

 

ou were asked to not to swear by member of the staff you replied no....

 

Thats because the person who asked me has rubbished my help for others before and for some reason likes to pick holes in my postings. And I am being asked to respect him ??!! I don't think so.

 

in my mind in life you have respect for everyone until they prove otherwise...

 

Interesting, you would respect people who are possible criminals until you knew otherwise ? I think that comment makes my point as to you earn someones respect first in my opinion.

Boy, I hope I'm allowed an opinion on this forum.....

 

Still, nothing like a healthy debate is there ?

Next I be asked to respect Thatcher !!!!

[marco84]

In my opinion, everyone should recieve a basic level of respect no matter who they are. Then by their own actions they can influence the ammount of respect you have for them, if that is to loose some of your respect or to increase your respect for them is dependant on themselves and their actions.

[Ric_]

@mattx: I would like to lay this matter to rest. The analogy of enterring someone's home and not respecting their issues is perfectly suitable in this instance.

 

Ultimately, this site is owned by Dos_Box who has decided that he does not want potentially offensive content on HIS site. You were politely reminded of this by a staff member and, instead of simply heeding this advice you have enflamed matters.

 

You are free to have your own opinions on matters - this was never questioned. I know that my opinions on some matters are disliked by others, however I do not openly voice these opinions in a public forum where they may cause offense.

 

I hope that we can draw a line under this situation and start afresh. If you wish to discuss the matter further, please contact myself as Tony has asked.

[_Bat_]

Interesting, you would respect people who are possible criminals until you knew otherwise ?

 

Yes. I guess it is much like innocent until proven guilty. Everyone is a potential criminal.

 

If I am walking down the street and I open a shop door to walk in, I will hold the door open for the person behind me. I don't know that person at all, but I respect them enough to hold the door open for them. There are different kinds of respect and some kinds of respect people earn by "default" until "proven otherwise". I personally think not swearing in someones presence if they don't want it is something that is earned by "default".

 

(apologises for first post, I thought you meant staff at school had told you off).

[mattx]

The analogy of enterring someone's home and not respecting their issues is perfectly suitable in this instance.

 

I am not in someone's home, I'm on an internet forum.

 

you were politely reminded of this by a staff member and, instead of simply heeding this advice you have enflamed matters.

 

To make a point, one of the site admins DID NOT RESPECT my postings and now he is the person trying to tell me what to do. I think people need to be aware of that.

 

There are different kinds of respect and some kinds of respect people earn

 

That I agree with, the problem I have is being asked to respect the site admins when one of the site admins does not respect a posting I made to try and help another member.

 

apologises for above post, I thought you meant staff at school had told you off

 

No problem, I don't swear at school and anyway the main topic of debate I started was respect. Btw, I respect you for apologising.

 

@mattx: I would like to lay this matter to rest.

 

Just when it was getting interesting too.....

[russdev]

@Matt

 

Geoff is not a site admin but he is staff member the only admins are myself, tony, ric and db...

 

Maybe just to clarify this site mods are here to moderate the forum they answer to admins who then answer to dos_box as the site owner.

 

He was acting on our behalf when we asked him to talk to you in private about a post.

 

As for internet public forum vs home analogy lets use this one then you wouldn't go into a shop and swear at the cashier.

 

When we are in public or not in my view we should have respect for one and other..

 

As for respecting Maggie Thatcher well can see your point on that one

 

 

Russell

[russdev]

p.s

 

I do understand you saying that don't know us from adam and have added something in 2.0 of this site to solve that...

 

 

Russ

[webman]

I do understand you saying that don't know us from adam and have added something in 2.0 of this site to solve that...

 

Russ

 

Would that be the 200-word auto-biography entry requirement? 8)

[Midget]

Dare I ask what mattx said to start this all off so that others can avoid making the same mistake?

[mattx]

Dare I ask what mattx said to start this all off so that others can avoid making the same mistake?

 

Not a great deal really, I used a few naughty words thats all and I got 'told off' for telling Geoff 'No' when he PMed me to stop. Geoff [ who likes to pick holes in my postings ] then told one of the site admins who told me I had to 'respect' site admins. I responded that I in my book you EARN respect and don't get it just because your an admin etc, and why was Geoff not respecting my posts....and he's site staff etc....

So nothing really. :-)

[russdev]

Matt you had one run in with Geoff we banged both your heads together and told you both off as you where both to blame.

 

Original run in with Geoff only got escalated to us when you started swearing at him at time I did say to you we also had word with Geoff as he was in wrong as well..

 

But this time this whole thing is you have come here a staff member asked you not swear on forums to bluntly that wasn't a request a staff member was asking you to respect the forums not him he was acting in his role as a staff member but you choose to say no to that request.

 

This meant staff member asked admins to intervene as you had been asked not to swear on forums you refused.

 

Issue we have is we ask you to respect the site and when asked by admins either direct not indirect via a staff member we expect members to honour that request and if they have an issues with that to go site admins in case of staff member or DB in case of site admin for decision on it.

 

We are going to leave this case here simple put been asked not to swear on forums honour that request please. The rest of thread lets discuss respect and here goes my reply....

 

Matt you talk about be brought up that people earn respect i wasn't I was brought that you respect people until they have done something against you...

 

I respect everybody I meet if they then do something to throw away that respect that is different matter.

 

Maybe that is what is wrong with world if we started of with respect then we wouldn't have half problems we have in the world...

 

In this world several kinds of respect civil respect we should have a basic respect all people based on moral code of a community until they do something to lose respect.

 

Moral respect respect based on the fact a person has high standing with in a community such as priest who in return for that respect has to adhere to stricter morel code.

 

Then admiration respect i.e i respect playing abilities of David Beckham..

 

The fact is respect is something scholars have been debating for long while with no conclusive answers...

 

Russ

[GrumbleDook]

Matt. You were clearly told that it had been discussed between the staff and admins ... not just Geoff telling me that you had said no. I clearly told you that he was the person telling you not to use strong language as he was the person free to do so ... I gave further explainations why.

 

I asked you to respect the mods and admins as they do a heck of a lot of work to make the site run smoothly ... all of this has been done with constant discussions between mods and admins.

 

And you still gave the impression that you did not care what the mods or admin say because you believe you have the right to say what you want because we have not earned your resepct.

 

And after telling you that I was going away for the weekend and to speak to Russell or Ric ... or ultimately Dos_Box you then decide to take what is basically a slap on the wrists for not abiding by some good rules into a public slanging match.

 

Ric and Russell have summed thing up pretty well with regards to the general feelings about respect. I will add a coment on this. After all of this I no longer have any respect for you and repeat my earlier comment. This site runs smoothly because everyone actually wants to work together, this means that people will politely ask others to do things in certain ways ... it is called convention. It was how the internet was built in the early years and if you feel that you don't fit into that model then you know where the door is.

 

On usenet you would have been plonked by now (and those that know me from usenet are aware that I never plonk except in extreme cases! Heck ... I even still read Ian Lynch's stuff!)

 

Ultimately you were told

In short, our forums, our rules. Learn to respect it and agree to abide by them. If you don't like this then there are other forums with different rules.

 

I told you that I did not want to ram this down your throat ... but the fact that you repeatedly showed that you don't give a toss about what mods or admins say makes me think how little you actually value this site and the lengths people go to behind the scenes to make sure it all runs smoothly and the lengths other members go to when posting so that they don't cause offence or other problems.

 

I have just PMed you but I feel that is worth making the question public ...

 

If asked by a Forum Moderator or Site Admin to stop doing something will you say "no" again?

[mattx]

but the fact that you repeatedly showed that you don't give a toss about what mods or admins say makes me think how little you actually value this site and the lengths people go to behind the scenes to make sure it all runs smoothly and the lengths other members go to when posting so that they don't cause offence or other problems.

 

When have I ever said I don't give a toss ? The only possible example you have is when Geoff PMed me and as he tends to pick holes in my posts before I just ignored his requests as I don't respect anyone who picks holes in someones help when trying to help others. I think I have already explained that.

 

This site runs smoothly because everyone actually wants to work together, this means that people will politely ask others to do things in certain ways ... it is called convention.

 

I agree it runs smoothly, its a shame this has reached a point in which it has however I feel I had to argue my case here. This thread has not resulted in a slagging match, its been a nice debate in regards to what others see as a level of respect. That is why I raised it to start with.

 

And you still gave the impression that you did not care what the mods or admin say because you believe you have the right to say what you want because we have not earned your resepct.

 

To quote airplane: ' Sorry I don't do impressions... '

I think looking back on it now if the 'telling off' came from someone other than Geoff, I may have sat up and listened a bit more.

 

...you then decide to take what is basically a slap on the wrists for not abiding by some good rules into a public slanging match.

 

Errrr no, thats is not what I have done, I openly started a thread about respect but its sort of grown from there. No one has used bad language, no one has got nasty, its been a good honest open debate about respect etc. If others have read this thinking otherwise then that is down to them, but I do apologise if what they have read has offended them at all.

 

I have just PMed you

I have not read it yet, I'll take a look in a min.

[GrumbleDook]

Ok ... I'll simplify the issue.

 

You did something that, after discussion between the mods and admins, was not deemed suitable to the site. A mod was tasked to deal with it and, because of whatever history you have with said mod, you decided to ignore the request.

 

The mod asked for advice from other mods and the admins. I picked it up from this point and said that you should respect the mod and what he says.

 

I honestly don't care about the previous history of you and Geoff. If I thought that previous bad history with someone should mean that the mod should pussy-foot around a member I would say we are doing the site a diservice.

 

My gripe is that even after repeated attempts to get you to realise that this was not a case of 'Geoff flexing his Admin Muscles', it was part of a decision by site staff (mods and admins) to deal with some strong language. Again, it comes back to the fact that the staff don't often flex their muscles and it is expected that members will understand ... and yes, I will use the 'respect' word again ... what is being said and follow the guidance / instructions / orders. Again ... the open question is do you agree to follow instructions by mods and admins in the future, irregardless of whether or not the person dealing with it is someone you have had good or bad experiences with.

 

Forums are not sustainable without this level of co-operation and I think we can count ourselves lucky that this sort of conversation is extremely rare here ...

[mattx]

A mod was tasked to deal with it and, because of whatever history you have with said mod, you decided to ignore the request.

 

Just a slight correction, I only ignored the request as it came from Geoff. [ Because of his attitude towards me before ]

I have not ignored other posts and PMs etc from others such as yourself.

 

Again ... the open question is do you agree to follow instructions by mods and admins in the future, irregardless of whether or not the person dealing with it is someone you have had good or bad experiences with.

 

Any my reply is that it really depends on the request !!

But I'm sorry, that any future request from Geoff will have to be ignored. Put yourself in my position - would you after he rubbishes your help towards other users ?

Anyway - lets hope it does not come to that eh ? I certainly don't want to stir the pot anymore.... I want to help others and get help from others from the forum.

[MkII]

I agree you should give utmost respect until you have reason not to do so. I think this is what Matt did.

 

I think it reasonable for Matt to have the right to dislike any person on these forums, and it may have been a more sensitive move for another member of staff to have communicated with him in hindsight. Of course you shouldn't flaunt the rules and of course you should expect to fall foul if you don't.

 

The way I see it the community belongs to itself and is self governing. That it has developed so professionally is to our credit I think. With the scale of it now i'm sure it will be a challenge to keep such a single purpose. When you think about it it's incredible how well it all works.

[localzuk]

I think this issue has got way out of hand really. As I edit Wikipedia a fair amount I come across lots of situations where things flare up like this. The easiest answer in nearly all situations is 'leave well enough alone, avoid the person you have problems with - no matter how annoying they are being, and get back to work'. That philosophy seems to work wonders for me...

[Dos_Box]

Right, its time I put in my response.EduGeek is first and foremost a community, and in internet terms quite a busy and vibrant one at that. As such we reflect the societies we come from and work in.

As in all communities, both physical and virtual it is impossible to get everyone to agree or even like each other. This is life and there is nothing we can do to change this. I for one have started to enjoy the differences in opinion . When I created EduGeek I was pretty much set as to what methods, products and processes I viewed as the 'correct' way of doing things. EduGeek has changed this perception. I am a bit less blinkered as I once was. Sometimes I agree with someone's point of view, sometimes I disagree, but always I keep in mind that others methods work for them. Sometimes I even get a little angry.

Just like a real community we have rules, and 'laws' These are not just to ensure that netiquet is followed, but to also ensure that people seeing EduGeek for the first time, or just visiting do not see us as an archaic collective, and believe me when I say that our lurkers and visitors are not just 'Joe Public'. We have government departments visiting us, major industry players and companies are here daily to gather opinions on their products and services, and to see just what we say about them behind their backs. On the whole they are very, very positive about what they see, with balanced views being seen throughout.

What it comes down to is that we must have standards, we must have a point at which something becomes unacceptable, and this point is swearing and profanity. Swearing is great if you are under pressure or have just hurt yourself and is to my mind completely forgiveable (I spent 13 years as a soldier and know all about pressure and swearing, trust me), but the use of profanity as part of an argument is unacceptable, and to my mind is merely an indicator of an argument being lost. This is a direct comment from out T&Cs...

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws.

I am not going to tell anyone off here, as the MODS and Admins have all done their jobs sterlingly, and the amount of behind the scenes conversations and consultations have ensured that things were handled splendidly and as well as can possible be done.

I spend (on average) 2-3 hours per night working on EduGeek, replying to mail, talking to people who want to work with us, catching up on the forums and doing any admin that needs doing. I rely totally on the mods and admins to keep the peace, and this they have done. Lets have no more of this please and if you feel a little pressured simply walk away for a bit.

 

 

P.S. I like Sophos and cant help feeling that some people have not read the manual when it comes to its enterprise configuration and administration.