Small server to run vm while normal server gets fixed.

[edutech4schools]

I look after a number of small primary schools that have a single server setup. Along with the normal backups I also use vmware Converter to capture an image. This has served me well in the past for doing server migrations and could be used if a server goes down to let a select few members of staff still work.

 

I am looking to get a not so powerful server that I can take with me into a school, dump the image onto and leave on site until they have a working server.

 

I did see on these forums something about a mini server (might be HP) that may do the job.

 

Obviously it needs to light so I can carry it.

 

I was going to say cheap as its got to come out of my pocket, but if its good I might be able to find the cash.

 

Any thoughts on this or alternative ideas.

 

Thanks.

[jamesfed]

You are probably thinking of the HP Pro Liant Micro Server - small little thing with a Athlon Neo II processor (will run hardware VMs on it well). Certinly not the most powerful thing on the planet but runs 2k8R2 well enough.

Last month HP were doing a £100 cashback on it and it might even be still running now.

[m25man]

Are you planning on using the VMWare converter to create a VM to run on your "Spare Server"? or is the "Spare Server" going to be a Physical replacement?

 

Im just thinking about the VM Template issues in moving between Intel and AMD hardware. Fine if everything is Intel "OR" AMD but if you need to support both it could give rise to issues.

Never had to deal with it myself as I only use AMD's to cook toast...

[chrbb]

Do you have server software running on the 'small server' to enable the vm image to work?

 

Also what do other primary techs on here do to prepare for the day that their one and only server goes pete tong?

[edutech4schools]

VM Template issues in moving between Intel and AMD hardware

 

I am going to have windows installed with vmware server2 running the vm. Is that still hardware dependant? if so good thinking m25man.

 

Basically I will probably use it at home as a server (server2008) for testing and running my own network but in the event of complete failure I can bung it in a school for a few days.

[edutech4schools]

Do you have server software running on the 'small server' to enable the vm image to work?

 

I have played with vmware esxi but they don't fit a small school setup. You can get everything backup and running in no time using esxi but you need iscsi drives and other hardware for it to really work.

 

I currently use vmware server2 (free) to run a captured system from. you can run multiple desktops and servers all virtually linked with a virtual network all from one computer for testing.

 

I use vmware converter to capture a working live system that can run in vmware server2.

 

Its a backup of a backup plan. (can't have to many backups) and the fact its a live working system gives you testing options too.

[jamesfed]

We migrated over 3 2K8 servers from Intel processors to a AMD 8 core using Hyper-V/System Centre Virtual Machine manager with no troubles, while Hyper-V server may not be your best option (as its a bit of a pain to setup) but it runs fine using local storage.

[sparkeh]

Also what do other primary techs on here do to prepare for the day that their one and only server goes pete tong?

 

Personally I always have next day onsite warranty and valid backups. Never needed anything above this.

[TechSupp]

Also what do other primary techs on here do to prepare for the day that their one and only server goes pete tong?

 

Pray! or at least thats what I do, only ever had one server go down and that was really only just a W98 PC that was used as a general file store when I first started so not a proper server. I did have an NEC have its power supply blow with flames, fortunately under warranty and a nice man came out and sorted it :-) Try to get servers with three years on site warranty for harware issues and as I say for software issues a little bit of praying goes a long way so far! (touches all bits of wood he can find near him!) Others are Fujitsu and they have never had a moment so far (6 years for the oldest), bit slow now (P4 with 512Mb) so in the process of sorting out replacements, the originals being put to use as backup devices of extra storage for archive etc.

Edited January 17, 2011 by TechSupp

[jamesreedersmith]

Personally I always have next day onsite warranty and valid backups. Never needed anything above this.

 

The problem is virtually all the big manufacturers (Dell, HP and Lenovo) have a clause in there warranty plans that say next day on site warranty - somebody will be on site by the next day to look at the problem, if however you need parts then these will be as long as they will be!.

[chrbb]

Pray! or at least thats what I do, only ever had one server go down and that was really only just a W98 PC that was used as a general file store when I first started so not a proper server. I did have an NEC have its power supply blow with flames, fortunately under warranty and a nice man came out and sorted it :-) Try to get servers with three years on site warranty for harware issues and as I say for software issues a little bit of praying goes a long way so far! (touches all bits of wood he can find near him!) Others are Fujitsu and they have never had a moment so far (6 years for the oldest), bit slow now (P4 with 512Mb) so in the process of sorting out replacements, the originals being put to use as backup devices of extra storage for archive etc.

 

Actually I should have said what happens if there's a software problem! Like most people I have a warranty for hardware, onsite nbd, but when windows goes and the server needs rebuilding what do you have in place for that? Timescale etc?

[qcomer]

The problem is virtually all the big manufacturers (Dell, HP and Lenovo) have a clause in there warranty plans that say next day on site warranty - somebody will be on site by the next day to look at the problem, if however you need parts then these will be as long as they will be!.

 

Dell offers a ProSupport Warranty on all their equipment. We order desktops, servers and laptops all with ProSupport Warranty. With this warranty they dont even have to send a tech and will have parts their next day if you feel you are qualified to handle it.

 

 

As far as the vmware issue - not sure. Why not just have the schools pay for a server? If they are THAT small, you could probably run 2 domain controllerssand file server and have them replicate eachother. Servers arent THAT expensive especially for smaller applications.

[sparkeh]

The problem is virtually all the big manufacturers (Dell, HP and Lenovo) have a clause in there warranty plans that say next day on site warranty - somebody will be on site by the next day to look at the problem, if however you need parts then these will be as long as they will be!.

 

Over the past 5 years the few problems I have had with a server have been cured with a next day visit by tech (who have always brought a wealth of parts) or next day delivery of parts for me to replace. So far not gone beyond one days worth of downtime.

[sparkeh]

Actually I should have said what happens if there's a software problem! Like most people I have a warranty for hardware, onsite nbd, but when windows goes and the server needs rebuilding what do you have in place for that? Timescale etc?

 

Without wishing to tempt fate here, I have never had to rebuild a server.

But if I did it would depend on the situation. At my CCx schools it would be the time taken to restore from the backup. At Vanilla school I have a store of backups with be can bare metal restored and also every so often the VHDs are copied over. So in an emergency it would be the time to reinstal Hyper-V and attach the VHDs.

[TechSupp]

Actually I should have said what happens if there's a software problem! Like most people I have a warranty for hardware, onsite nbd, but when windows goes and the server needs rebuilding what do you have in place for that? Timescale etc?

 

On the software side....pray and hope Edugeek will come to my rescue, other than that would call a local company and be prepared to pay for day rate call out charges for one of their engineers to come and assist. As far as time scale it is what it is and it would get fixed as soon as possible, cant do more than that. I only cover the curriculum side so if it goes down its not mission critical and people would have to go back to chalk and slate for a while. Admin side is looked after by the LA.

[edutech4schools]

Ok might be being a bit over doing it with my next day dell fix, off site backup, on site backup and vmware capture but most run automatically so no time on my part. The only thing I have to do manually is the vmware capture, but its worth being able to do software testing on a school server before doing it on the real thing.

 

Just had a though if the server goes up in smoke its not covered by warranty, you would need to order a new one, and the last time I ordered from dell it took 3 weeks to turn up. Fix would be find a server faster or run vm while we wait.

[sparkeh]

Just had a though if the server goes up in smoke its not covered by warranty, you would need to order a new one, and the last time I ordered from dell it took 3 weeks to turn up. Fix would be find a server faster or run vm while we wait.

 

That's why all our servers are under warranty

[qcomer]

Over the past 5 years the few problems I have had with a server have been cured with a next day visit by tech (who have always brought a wealth of parts) or next day delivery of parts for me to replace. So far not gone beyond one days worth of downtime.

 

The fact that you can risk one-days worth of down time like its no sweat is a little bit scary! lol. Why h ave the down time at all if you can prevent it? Shouldnt we be about being preventative rather than recovering? Not trying to pick a bone here Backups are very good to have (in fact, we run Avamar and back up to two out of city/out of county locations and we are running fully virtualized on 2 Dell R710 backups with failover to each box and an EMC iSCSI SAN.

 

You have been very lucky though.

[sparkeh]

The fact that you can risk one-days worth of down time like its no sweat is a little bit scary!

 

It is?

When you work for a cash primary you have to make value for money decisions. Is it worth spending the money to put in a solution to avoid 1 days downtime in 5 years? I certainly don't think so.

[TechSupp]

Got to agree there, mine are primary and money is scarce and tight so its a trade off and having a days down time although annoying is not critical. If we are talking secondary where more systems are 'mission critical' then I would agree other fall back systems would be in place.

[qcomer]

I dunno, servers are cheap. I dont know what a cash primary is, but our schools are hurting for money here in the US also. Servers are justifiable expenses though.

Here if our network is down they are potentially losing money due to not being able to report attedance and other reports that are required. Seems like it would take my effore to keep your "solutions" going than just addressing it properly the first time.

 

Then again, like i said - not trying to ruffle any feathers.

[sparkeh]

I dunno, servers are cheap. I dont know what a cash primary is, but our schools are hurting for money here in the US also. Servers are justifiable expenses though.

Sure but there are more justifiable expenses that we have to compete with such as books, PE equipment etc. For example one school has just had a disabled child start so need to find thousands of pounds to build a new toilet with special hoisting equipment - money for backup server? Not a chance!

Here if our network is down they are potentially losing money due to not being able to report attedance and other reports that are required.

Firstly we don't lose money for that. Secondly we use the Local Authority to manage that anyway, who, interestingly, don't use backup servers but have nbd onsite warranty and valid backups

Seems like it would take my effore to keep your "solutions" going than just addressing it properly the first time.

I can't really see what your problem is. What we are doing is fairly standard practice in the primary sector.

[edutech4schools]

sparkeh:

That's why all our servers are under warranty

 

I need to dig out the paperwork but think you might find things like flood damage and fire don't cover the warranty.

 

Above Posts:

Most Primary schools are single server. Trying to get them to get a new server every 5 years when the warranty runs out is a fight. Cant see them having a second server, just in case.

 

Its the heads decision how money is spent, its my job to advice. If they say its ok for the server to be out while its fixed then that's up to them.

[TechSupp]

sparkeh:

 

I need to dig out the paperwork but think you might find things like flood damage and fire don't cover the warranty.

 

Thats why they pay for schooll insurance, ok more down time whilst its sorted but as said small pot of money lot of things to be achived with it and ICT does not always come out near the top, especially if its for something that 'aint broke' yet, not logical maybe but thats reality and thats what we have to deal with.

[natm]

We're reinstalling domain controllers in 50 primary schools, at the moment they are all standalone domains. We're joining them all onto a single County AD, the primary servers will all become RODCs then.

 

I frequently run VMWare ESXi on an Optiplex 780 which I take about with me, it has a pair of SATA 1tb discs in it and 8gb of RAM. Its usefull for P2V'ing an existing server onto and the reinstalling the hardware without any major outages. One thing to look out for is VT support on the CPU on your VM host, I originally had an Optiplex 760 but the Dual Core CPU in it didn't have VT, so I couldn't run any 64bit VMs (so no 2008r2).

 

We've been deploying Dell T310 servers to primaries recently, running vanilla 2008, Quad Core, 4gb RAM, 3 x 1tb SAS in RAID5 plus LTO drive. These come in at about £1800, been thinking about trying an Optiplex 780 with a RAID1 card and a pair of 1tbs instead for primaries, we'd be able to replace them quicky if anything failed and would cost £600. Anyone do anything similar?