Should we/you run network cables?

[tarquel]

Hi all

 

Not sure if we've asked this but here goes...

 

What I'm asking is, should we be running network [Cat5e/6 - or fibre if you got the kit and know-how] cables through walls, floors, ceilings, etc.?

 

Of course, internal cabling of a room is a given I guess i.e. adding an additional wall socket to the switch in the same room [or however it's termed].

 

But what about running xx amount of cables from one room/switch through multiple walls/floors/ceilings/roof spaces to another room to make a new computer room for example??

 

- Should (must) we have training in order to be legally covered/allowed?

- Does it have to be descriptively mentioned in our job descriptions?

- what would be the minimum ammount of wages you'd expect to be on in order to fullfil such a task?

 

I'm asking as me and the caretaker are being asked to do this - he's on ~11k and I'm on ~13.2k.

 

His job description is detailed as "light maintainance" and "first response repair" (think its called that) i.e. stopping a leaking tap, etc.

 

Gonna have a quick look (yet again) at mine, but I have always said in the past that I dont mind doing internal room links/additions, but not something of this scale before.

 

Any thoughts asap would be most welcome as we got to do it asap also - and we aren't sure if we are meant to or not :?

 

Regards

N.

[Netman]

For that sort of money you should tell them where to route their CAT5 mate!

 

We do all our own copper here and only go outside for fibre - site engineer routes the cables and I terminate them - but we are both much better paid (not being rude). For the sort of money you'll be saving the school you should get a pay rise - how are you with reports... I'd write an in-depth cost/benefit analysis of doing it in-house and use it to justify a requested pay rise...! but do it before the job 'cause if you do it once they'll expect it every time...

 

Good luck...

[kingswood]

Hey.

 

That's a whole bunch of issues poured into one post- but here's my thinking: no- you shouldn't make this your job. First of all I don't think you are being paid enough to do this, and secondly there are really big saftey issues that need to be taken into account. Things like scaffolding, ladders (these are basic I know but major H&S items on their own merit). Then there's the safety of cables themselves (plenum grade etc etc).

 

If it were simply a case of running some cable through wall mounted duct from a horizontal cross-connect, then I would say go for it. The experience would be good and you would learn a lot from it. But what you are being asked to do- from the information you have given- needs the attention of trained cabling guys with experience and the right tools.

 

I say make 'em pay for that experience and get some cablers in to do a survey and quote.

 

Paul

[tarquel]

Thanks for the replies so far guys - please keep them coming

 

PS if you want more info, then please ask - i'm happy to tell.

 

@Netman: lol - you make me laugh [in a good way lol]

 

I would love to tell them that - but I'm not allowed an opinion I'm afraid lol

 

The pay-rise aspect is fairly pointless as I asked for one before (I was on 5.5k pro rata - believe it or not - 24 hrs a week) which was a year last xmas. There's been redundancies here too so I'd feel like a idiot asking for that lol

 

@kingswood:

 

lol It is a load of issues - I'm afraid of too much detail and getting in trouble for it lol but there are a whole host of issues I (and others) have here lol

 

I was thinking of the H&S too - I didnt mean it to be only about my case. Just in general really

 

Its a fairly complex route i.e. not from one room horizontally into the next

 

oo g2g to chinese

 

keep posting pls lol

 

Nath

[russdev]

no and no again....

 

oh and no...

 

first if you go anywhere near electrical trunking breaking law...

 

second you are doing large scale installtion which you are not covered for.

 

Also if you do something that causes building to fall down and injure someone you are liable...

 

by all means go and do small stuff but large scale do not touch...

 

russ

[russdev]

also contact your lea for advice as well...

 

russ

[Ric_]

some good isues raised here...

* BANG! - you just went through an electrical cable in the wall

* What if somebody doesn't like the job you have done? - You always get one person that complains that the wall's the wrong colour or something equally rediculous

* Indeed, if you do it once you will be expected to do it again and again and again on larger and larger scales

 

Just get someone in and have a load of other work done at the same time - preferably through somebody elses cost centre

[GrumbleDook]

Yes, yes and Yes .... but only if you form a limited company, get the relevant insurance and documentation, can show that your work is guaranteed for x years, and only if you charge you annual wage for a 2 week job.

 

Seriously ... do not do it.

 

If you get told to then ask for a full H&S by an authorised assessor (and since it will mean work in the roofspace and close proximity to eletrical conduits an electrician should also be present during the assessment) and this will probably mean someone from the LEA coming out ...

 

I've been there and done that ... it ain't worth the grief.

[Ric_]

Oh yeah - forgot to mention that you must also make sure that you meet all the regs - Xmm from mains cables, only crossing mains at right-angles, correct type of cable (low smoke solid core STP/FTP, etc.)

 

The time it will take you to make sure you know enought to run the cables you could have paid for someone to come in and do the job twice

[MkII]

I do it but only because I volunteered to do so. No way do I consider it my job or that it should ever be. I just did it for the experience and because it'd save the school pots of money.

 

Reading that link you showed me earlier Nath, I think I shouldn't have done that. All those regulations about what you should and shouldn't do. I can think of loads i've done against regulations. All our school requires is that we check the asbestos register just to make sure we're safe. Last year I drilled through a mains cable - the legal ramifications are frightening to think about. As it happens, the cable I hit was connected to 3 fuses giving a maximum load of 72 amps - I was lucky. The electrician that tried to fix it got a shock himself.

 

I did have a student assisting me, which was good cos we both knew something about what we were doing. The Head decided she didn't like the student and made the Caretaker help me just like you. It just makes the job harder I think as you've got to manage then what that person does, as they're just a labourer [no disrespect intended]. My mate ripped out a stretch of cabling and forgot to label the cables [that needed re-routing], caused a lot of work.

[MkII]

I really think you should ask for the money too. The redundancies are nothing to do with your job, don't get too sentimental about it. Does the Head offer to work for less than her job is worth just because there are redundancies flying around? - you bet she doesn't! Neither should you.

 

The school are getting away with paying you less than the going rate. In the wider scheme of things they have money to shift around. They can make it available when it suits them. If you left they'd have to face that fact, so why not do yourself and them a favour and get them to realise the true cost of the job now.

 

If they're not costing it then their business plan is inaccurate, and they'll have to release funds from something else they thought they had the cash for, so you'd be making things worse for them by not making them see the truth.

 

You know better than they do what is needed and the real world costs. You should seriously be helping them by letting them know.

 

/rant

[GrumbleDook]

There is a thrid way .... (shudder)

 

You could get your resident electrician to pull the cables. A lot of sparkies deal with data cables now as well ... have them pull / route it through conduit ... and you terminate.

 

Doubt you'll meet CAT5e and no chance of CAT6 ... but it is a possible solution.

[tarquel]

The link mark refers to is:

 

http://www.lanshack.com/cat5e-tutorial.asp

 

Nice site (at least I've always thought so)

 

Back on track tho, I didnt (honestly) mean for this to be a /rant myself so sorry about that.

 

@Mark:

hehe you know the score with my job [even tho you do have a goldfish's memory no offense ] - I've "gone above the call of duty" many times over [like I'm sure we all have] but enough is enough surely - or we'll end up doing everything there lol

 

i like the electrician idea - but we'd end up "wagging" it i.e. not putting additional power sockets on walls and just using surge protected power extentions - so no electrician needed

 

hmmm..... dunno how this is gonna turn out

 

Thanks guys (but keep posting if you have any more gems )

 

Nath

[SpuffMonkey]

In a similar vein - I drew the line at mounting interactive white boards and ceiling mounted projectors. Two men can just about lift a big IWB and one of those coming off its mounting could do some serious damage to a person (same for a projector) - so I said "No". It wasn't the end of the world and after a bit of sulking - they got people in to do it.

[tarquel]

yep - i said the same.

 

They installed in the hols - not perfect but a good job generally.

 

End of the day, i cant talk to him (deputy/ict co-ordinator) properly - dunno what it is but i get tounge tied with him [i do a bit anyway - but usually explain it in the end] and he want everyone to do everything etc.

 

I wont go further as i dont want to slander/etc. but its not nice - and i'm dreading telling him. Need to talk to the union but its a little har to - especially at work :S

 

sorry for additional rant

 

Regards

N.

[russdev]

also if go a for pay rise go for title role change to network manager as looks good on cv..

 

Also contact lea payroll and if you lea use hayes pay scheme then ask for a copy of hayes pay decsriptions. if they use hayes will send you a copy of mine but better if have something from your own lea union people might be able to help you with this.

 

As then can say getting paid for this and this what i should be doing and this is what i am doing and then can argue for rise...

 

also remember if you do something out of your area or for example you do this cabling then say i will do it this once so they cant make you keep doing it.

 

russ

[ninjabeaver]

OK guys,

 

My best advice is not to do any electrical work. mounting of anything, fitting of anything etc. Just stick to your job you are there to do and let people come in and do their job. It's all guaranteed then as well, and you have someone else the SMT can blame.

 

It's not worth the hassle, honestly. One minor mistake and you can be in a world of pain. Plus you also set yourself a precedent and would be expected to do it every time after that.

 

The only work I will do is to move a network point that is in a room. I've done cabling for years before this job, but even doing that I'm loathe to do.

 

I know it's nice to do the jobs to help the school save money, but when do they ever thank you for it???? Majority of the time is never, I guess.

 

Just stay well clear.

[StewartKnight]

I've completely created a couple of new computer suites here, and I'm quite well paid, so I didn't mind, then science wanted to be networked, I told them I was too busy to accomodate them, so they got some 6th formers to do the wireing, and what a dreadful job they did! So there you go, it you don't want to take on the job yourself.... get the 6th formers to do it!

[Dos_Box]

Anything electrical should be done by qualified contractors. The only wiring I don is making my own cables. Anything else is handled by people I can shout at later if need be.

[ninjabeaver]

Anything electrical should be done by qualified contractors. The only wiring I don is making my own cables. Anything else is handled by people I can shout at later if need be.

 

Exactly!!

[StewartKnight]

I wouldn't call cat5 "electrical" though. I wouldn't like to install power points, but network points have no electricity going through them (well, not enough to frazzle me!!)

[GrumbleDook]

I wouldn't call cat5 "electrical" though. I wouldn't like to install power points, but network points have no electricity going through them (well, not enough to frazzle me!!)

 

If there is the faint possibility that you may use VoIP or Power over LAN then it is electrical.

 

That is a good rule of thumb to stick to and it means that anything other than a piece of string gets done by a contractor.

[russdev]

you be surpised i rmeber hearing somewhere maybe a law as it still conttains electrical work cant do it at end of day cant do electrical work in your own home so i can imagine what rules leas have come up with..

 

russ

[ict02phs]

For this size of project I would get someone in, it would solve all sorts of problems, beside they should know about Building Regs, H&S, Cabling Stds etc.

 

I would get three quotes and possibliy go with the middle one.

 

If you are / have been tasked with the job get as much info / data together as possible. Of course you can use it all for ammo for not doing the task.

 

Begin with the Cicso site, they are world leaders in their field and they provide lots of free info.

 

You may also be able to get a free CCO logon to access even more stuff, you may have to be economical with the truth on some questions but it should be okay.

 

Try this link as a taster:

 

http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/netacad/course_catalog/CableFAQ.html

[Rozzer]

We simply get a cable contractor to do all our cabling. Simply its not apart of mine or our network managers job description. Plus it would be hard to do a cable job when the kids are in and in your working hours.

 

Ross