Should we/you run network cables?

[Guest metalmonkey]

If you do stick to your guns and say no no no then make sure your team is with you all the way.

 

I had the same problem where I work - I manage 3 guys. When we were told to do UTP cabling I said no we were not doing it. Then one of the team later said (behind my back) that he'll do it. It make me look very small. Now he's offsite supporting primary schools, guess who ended up with the job.

[Guest]

Have to say i made the mistake of installing cabling at one of the schools I support.

 

I'm lucky in that the site is spread over one level and the building has flat roofs. So most cabling goes straight out of a room and onto the roof, then back into the server room.

 

I can see why schools would want their IT guys to run cabling, especially smaller Primaries. Cost of cable + outlets vs Cost of cable + outlets + Contractor.

 

But in a larger school i would say NO WAY

[tarquel]

Wow!

 

Did expect such a hot topic response hehe

 

Just a few coments here...

 

@ict02phs:

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the post

 

For this size of project I would get someone in, it would solve all sorts of problems, beside they should know about Building Regs, H&S, Cabling Stds etc.

 

I would get three quotes and possibliy go with the middle one.

 

If you are / have been tasked with the job get as much info / data together as possible. Of course you can use it all for ammo for not doing the task.

 

the cab/switch cupboard > destination room is about 5-10m away diagonally down [as the crow flies] but theres a staircase inbetween so it makes it a little more of a longer run.

 

Its a fairly old building - not the classic mutli-layered floor type I've seen in other schools. [shame i dont have a map to show you all really] and i have no idea about the walls and so on i.e. what they are made of, drilling and so on...The floor is thick - as is most of the walls.

 

The caretaker was given the task to do it with me but like i said, i dont know what exactly qulifications he has in these matters but like i said he's only meant to do "light maintainance" and I doubt this is classed the same.

 

Getting three quotes will be tough - tho i could include the county themselves as I know of two in the area (well more than that but i dont trust the rest no more) and the county could be the third to quote.

 

I wouldn't imagine it'd cost that much either really as its more awkward than anything else - but still...

 

@metalmonkey:

 

its only a small school so the team comprises of just me really.

 

The ict co-ordinator is also the deputy head and does understand too much - as he would tell you back in the day lol

 

13.2k to do almost everything.... hmmmmm..... lol

 

Spoke to the couty IT helpdesk and they said that although officially I "could" do it (powys insured and work for county etc) they advise that I dont do it as I havent had the sufficient training to be insured personally in order to carry out the task [if that makes sense].

 

They suggest using the county architect's. I was thinking (like someone said above) that get them in to do proper truncing with the power - and then they would do the lan cables as part of it right?

 

Cheers

Nath

[MkII]

If you get architects to do a quote - I think it would then be obvious if the school went ahead and did it 'in house', and prompt some finger wagging etc from on high - a good ploy I recon ...Just stir a little and stand well back

[tarquel]

lol yep

 

but i think they might notice a quote taking place from them.

 

Might give IP a call tho *sighs* lol

 

Nath.

[tarquel]

whoops...

 

forgot to mention it, but I did speak to the county said although technically I could do it, the school would be covered but *I* wouldn't be [as i dont have the needed training & insurance, nor the H&S course].

 

They then suggested I speak to the union so i rang them...

 

The guy said that although he didnt quite understand what was required and so on - not a IT minded guy i assume - he agreed with the county in that I wouldnt be covered, dependant on the height, and so on of the job, that there could be serious troubles if I did do it [let alone if anything happened afterwards] and suggested i speak to the county H&S ppl...

 

which i did - they said the same and I explained the situation again. The woman was very nivce about and pretty much voiced what the others had said. She even wanted to come down and see the job in question, but I said it was ok for the minute as the management didnt (at the time) know anything about this.

 

I fell a bit underhand but I was only trying to check whether it was legal for me to do it or not.

 

Anyhow, on monday I told the head (the ICT co-ordinator wasnt in) and she was fine about it. Asked me if i could get the quotes and so on which I did and today I had similar quotes of around the 1.5k mark which I know the head will say no to (having said no to the one I got on monday).

 

There is a single cat5 link in there so I guess its gonna be a case of a switch [in the cab] to switch [in the target room] job and I'll cable internally.

 

Unfortunately tho, the ICT co-ordinator came back today and was fuming - had a go at a few people but didnt say anything to me about it oddly.

 

I've been a nervous wreck all day [i say jokingly but its also true lol]

 

Any thoughts?

 

With this part of the school being at the end of the network, I wonder how well it will perform running 12 PC's (+PS's) through this cat5 cable into another switch. Works ok near the server [with the computer room connecting like this to the switch with the server on it] in the same sort of config - but after a few hops down the line, i wonder if it'll be slow or not :S

 

Still, looks like the only option really

 

Still gonna cost tho as the switch that the room is connecting to is currently only a hub!! lol So another switch will be needed here methinks.

 

I'm gonna down half a bottle of whiskey so i can sleep tonight lmao [not really of course]

 

Nath.

[russdev]

but also nath you did write thing even if you end up doing it and and i would try and do anything in power to not see if can find cheaper quotes...

 

You have shown ict-cord that now going to sit down and take the crap... welcome to game called politics.

 

Also if doing internal cable send the head a written letter saying that you do not recommend it and doing it under force and before any work is done that you will need a letter from them stating that she will take full reponsability for any damage, loss if life or liability in anyway or form.

 

if need be draft letter and post here and we will help with it

 

russ

[kingswood]

It'll be slower than they would like, but that's their fault! If they aren't going to pay for someone to come in and sort it out (given that you aren't allowed to do it) then the speed they get is the speed they get.

 

Switch to switch is fine if you use gigabit ports to connect them and they in turn are connected to your central switch via gigabit (copper or fibre). When you say this room is "at the end of the network" it sounds like you have a "chain" of switches each connected by cat5 and that because this is the last link in that chain, it will be very slow. Is that how your LAN is configured?

 

It might be better to move to a wheel and spokes kind of configuration, with your server room being your middle of the universe and your switches being the bodies that orbit that middle. That way each of those switches would be connected directly to your central switch and get dedicated bandwidth to farm out to your clients. If your switches have good backplane speed (can shift huge amounts of data across the ports at one time), then even better. We use the HP Procurve 2650 for that job, and a central "core" switch by HP (8000m) as the middle of the LAN universe. The 2650s then farm out to 2124s in some places (24 port switches).

 

In Cisco terms, your middle of the universe would be your "Main Concentration" point, and your switch cupboards the "Horizontal Cross Connects" all connected via a "backbone or vertical cabling". Each building will connect to this MC via an IC (Intermediate Cross Connect) which in turn feeds the horizontal cross-connects to each room...if that makses sense.

 

You might already have done this and I might (therefore) be rambling and looking stupid. Nothing new. It comes from working with those "professionals" in teaching ;-)

 

Good luck with your task!

 

Paul

[MkII]

Do the math... 10 ports going down through 100mbit etc etc. and tell us the result. Depends on use as usual of course .

 

Sounds a bit of a waste of time ultimately. Our Head of IT is doing the same himself, except he's just placing a switch on an existing port - 100mbit fibre > 24 port unmanaged cheap nasty switch > his cheap nasty 16 port switch > 6 ports used = 0.4mbit per port - slower than dialup LOL!

 

He's just laying cable on top of desks. These are Art PC's meant for using fireworks, flash and web research. I'll get the blame for a poor performing network no doubt!!!

[Dos_Box]

You might as well try and use wireless for all the speed loss you have!

[tarquel]

just a quick temp post - gona try and draw up a map of the network to show u [its a old network sorta so placement where theres room is what its always been about - and will always be too, as moving the servers about and additional cabling aint gonna happen]

 

check back later and i'll try and draw a map lol

 

anyone got visio to hand? joke

 

#Nath#

[E1uSiV3]

i got visio 2003 lol

[Westbrooke]

Biggest argument for not doing cabling is that you get a 25 year warranty on the cabling if it is installed and tested by an approved installer.

Personally, I would never put in network cabling as it would not be certified.

 

Note that if you run it yourself and it is not fully tested (you need a full set of results from something like a Fluke tester) not just a yes/no test from a cable tester, then it cannot be considered to be Cat5e, even if you have used Cat5e components. The standard includes lots of detail about how the wiring is laid, terminated and the tolerances allowed on testing.

 

I can guarentee that you will get problems if you do your own cabling - although you may never pin them down to the cables unless you test them...

[russdev]

just a quick temp post - gona try and draw up a map of the network to show u [its a old network sorta so placement where theres room is what its always been about - and will always be too, as moving the servers about and additional cabling aint gonna happen]

 

check back later and i'll try and draw a map lol

 

anyone got visio to hand? joke

 

#Nath#

 

no but have look at dia free visio type program...

 

russ

[kingswood]

Dia is really good- highly recommend it. When studying my HNC I needed Visio (and couldn't afford it) so I used Dia on Linux and it worked a treat ;-)

 

Paul

[russdev]

using dia on windows to start mapping my network here

 

Russ

[kingswood]

Mmmmmm...that's a good idea Russ, because I *still* can't afford Vision and I *really* need to map our network...

 

uh oh...brainwave...

 

:-)

 

Paul

[MkII]

Butt ugly though!!!

 

Now if only this were a LOT more complex... http://www.kingfetty.com/

[russdev]

also try this one as well http://www.networknotepad.com/

 

Russ

[kingswood]

Networknotepad looks really good actually- I think I might give it a go..

 

Thanks Russ!!

 

Paul

[tarquel]

Well all I'm doing now [regarding the cabling job] is terminating the ends.

 

...which I do any how and is no biggie.

 

Its gonna be another loooong week lol

 

Regards

Nath

[kingswood]

Hey Nathan.

 

Glad to hear it (not the long week part! lol). Terminating the cables is the easy part. I like that bit. For me, finding spare capacity in a switch is the hard part!!

 

Paul :-P

[RobC]

Spare capacity in a switch? We've got an entire 24 port Cisco switch doing nowt in one of our comms cabinets. Discovered it not long after paying for Fujitsu to add another brand new switch to a different cab. Typical.

 

In fact, I wonder if they would notice if it went missing...

[kingswood]

lol!

 

I tried that with what I thought was a "spare" 2600 router...then county decided it was still theirs and took it home. Blast!

 

Paul

[tarquel]

Been rearranging the room this evening.

 

Will be running internal room links from the to-be terminated ports on the feed into the room to the computer's etc.

 

I do like that bit, but I wish the IT co-ord would actually grace the room with where he wants things laid out etc.

 

Oh well.... he cant moan if he aint prepared to help - maybe he will later on this week (who knows).

 

Still annoyed about the whole situation and i aint gonna go crawling to him and say sorry when all i did was check whether i should be doing it etc. Apparently he said to me that I was only doing the terminating - but somehow, I dont remember him saying that.

 

hmmmmmm........

 

Cheers y'all.

Nath