CC4 Upgrade - Summer 2010

[oxide54]

Based on that post, how can you say he'll save money by going vanilla? Do you know how many working hours he has to setup and manage the network? Do you know whether he's confident enough to setup and manage a Vanilla network? You've seen 'RM' and jumped to conclusions that money can be saved and Vanilla is better. An all too common, and unhelpful, response in RM threads on here.

 

it was based on the restriction that this kind of system imposes "it has to be boss" i.e. the cc4 server has to be the forest root, which I don't think your going to solve by swapping the DHCP/DNS services over the forest root is a completely different concept, which means re-install.

 

btw the "go vanilla was a joke" lighten up

[Redbottom]

We're in the middle of the process.

Both servers are now cc4 commisioned, student data and other files are across.

 

Just a massive dhcp and dns issue now.

 

We run two domains in school, a vanilla for admin, and cc3 (previously) for the students.

One admin server, and two rm servers.

The admin is the forest root, which runs dhcp and dns.

 

The technician tells us that the cc4 server1 has to be the forest root, so swapped dhcp and dns responsiblities over.

Now we get massive network delay on the admin network, and rm machines won't get ip's...........

 

This is not hard to sort out each domain keeps its DNS rolls just DHCP will sit on one domain with reservations set for the least amount of workstations guessing this would be the admin network and the main scope setup for the curric doman. just might take a while to eneter all the mac address but it works well

[Kitty]

Hi Matt

No problems with CC4 SR2, Windows 7 is great! A lot less hassle with drivers in the whole....

[Marci]

I dont look after the network anymore, we have a very good techie team who will be migrating us to a vanilla M$ network next year. Im glad it is there job, but trust that they will do it well and with less issues than RM caused!

Ah nothing better than misplaced trust...

[philwaud]

OK, some of you...

 

:-)

[synaesthesia]

Have a quick check on RM's KB under "tcpchimney" - there are some reg settings there you should ensure are disabled (set to 0) to disable an MS networking tweak which breaks things.

[the_quick]

I wish they would support W2k8 R2 - I find it much better to use than 2k3. Still CC3 network and not to sure what to do next summer - upgrade to CC4 or go to vanilla with Win2k8 R2 - saves money in spending, but I would probably spend lot of time tweaking it, to our needs. RM have quite a lot of tools, which are sometimes very usefull

[sparkeh]

I wish they would support W2k8 R2 - I find it much better to use than 2k3

 

I believe that support for 2k8 is being developed.

However I am interested in what benefits you believe that 2k8 CC4 would bring you.

[the_quick]

I don't have cc4 on the network, nor 2k8 domain controller. But I have been in near school where they use 2k8 and there are some thing which are beneficial, like for example drive mapping - no need to have GPO for that, it is just an option you can tick. I think it is a bit easier to use. And if some one have multi site school, they can use ReadOnly DC. RM was always bit behind with support for released software by MS (service packs, operating systems)

[Scifigirl]

managed to make manager understand we need new cc4 server last december-now getting around to a consultation on the order- only problem is we have 34 comps that are not compatible with cc4 (don't have the staying power!!) so those need replacing too

 

and we have not the funds

 

the usual then

[sparkeh]

I don't have cc4 on the network, nor 2k8 domain controller. But I have been in near school where they use 2k8 and there are some thing which are beneficial, like for example drive mapping

 

Once you are behind the RM tools though I can't see that this makes a difference, you aren't going to use the new method directly but still map drives through RMMC anyway?

(Please don't take this as being argumentative on my part, I really am interested in this )

[the_quick]

I can see your point. But I have few computers (admin staff) which are not RM workstation, but just plain xp pro. This gives me ability to login locally and speeds up boot up time and login. And here I have to create GPOs for those workstations if I want to tweak it a bit. And I have to admit I do enjoy doing something like that. Windows 2008 just looks and feels more user friendly.

 

I think if I had lots of money, sure I would upgrade to cc4 - but this year budget was cut even more - all this public sector savings - and I either stay with CC3 or move to vanilla network - work for next summer. We have already virtualized all our servers (with out using RM) and I think any step further would make it easier having Vmware in place

[PiqueABoo]

what benefits you believe that 2k8 CC4 would bring you

 

The obvious issue is that Microsoft and presumably RM stop supporting 2003 in less than five years time. Obviously this only matters if you think you ought to be able to string a server out for at least the next five years (that's probably more important for smaller sites with smaller budgets). Other than that I can't see what 2K8R2 CC4 will do because I can't see RM wanting to make it significantly inconsistent with 2K3R2 CC4.

 

I think RM just had unfortunate timing. There's not much you can do with CCx that I can't do with 2K8 native (and the associated deployment tools etc.). So if CC4 had coincided with (was targeted for 2K8) then in principle RM could have gotten away with a lot less code and subsequent bug-fixing. But I suppose they may have insisted on writing all their own stuff anyway.

[sparkeh]

I can see your point. But I have few computers (admin staff) which are not RM workstation, but just plain xp pro. This gives me ability to login locally and speeds up boot up time and login. And here I have to create GPOs for those workstations if I want to tweak it a bit. And I have to admit I do enjoy doing something like that.

I see. I build admin machines as CCx machines to control everything in one place. Do you find advantages from leaving them out of the RMiness?

 

Windows 2008 just looks and feels more user friendly.

I have been impressed with 2008 R2 at my vanilla site. If I was full time at any one site it would be a serious consideration to go vanilla.

 

I think if I had lots of money, sure I would upgrade to cc4 - but this year budget was cut even more - all this public sector savings - and I either stay with CC3 or move to vanilla network - work for next summer.

A dilemma that one of my primary schools is facing at the moment as well. They decided to wring a bit more out of CC3 and then the cuts hit. Bit of a cleft stick there as its pricey to upgrade to CC4 but then with all the licences for the software that we would need to replace (as getting a windowbox licence is far cheaper than individual licences), going vanilla won't be cheap either. The six year old server isn't helping either :/

[sparkeh]

The obvious issue is that Microsoft and presumably RM stop supporting 2003 in less than five years time. Obviously this only matters if you think you ought to be able to string a server out for at least the next five years (that's probably more important for smaller sites with smaller budgets).

Good point. As 2003 extended support ends in 2015 it would be a tricky time to buy this in.

Other than that I can't see what 2K8R2 CC4 will do because I can't see RM wanting to make it significantly inconsistent with 2K3R2 CC4.

Have to agree. I can see that potentially there will be no changes to CC4 on 2008, just that it runs on 2008. I guess it wouldn't make sense to fork the project in two directions when they can apply the same system to the different OS's. Perhaps when 2003 support ends they might make some changes? But then we might have CC5 to enjoy?

[the_quick]

I like have more control of admin workstations, RM machines have limitations, and loading time take much more time. In summer very often we have admin staff in offices, and this is time when I work on the network - so very often it is down - than they can work on any documents locally - you can't do that with RM workstation.

 

Licensing costs - we were very fortunate to have MS sponsorship - free software for last 5 years. It ends next year, but we can keep all the licenses we were given. You will need to replace server anyway - does not matter if you have vanilla or RM. Do you have schools agreement with MS? If yes you should have software assurance - free upgrades. For me move to Vanilla in clear financial terms would not cost me a penny - only time - and I'm not sure if I have enough time and confidence to just leave RM. I have not use any support for at least 6 months - but if I need it, I know those guys are there.

I think schools ICT will get very difficult time now, with all the saving government have in mind. I know I will loose next year at least 10k from my budget. So I need to look where I can save and still to provide fully working network. Hard times are coming.

[Edu-IT]

I like have more control of admin workstations, RM machines have limitations, and loading time take much more time. In summer very often we have admin staff in offices, and this is time when I work on the network - so very often it is down - than they can work on any documents locally - you can't do that with RM workstation.

Offline files? It can be done, regardless of RM.

[the_quick]

Any RM workstation have local logon switched off, so it needs to be vanilla Windows - and than it is fine

[Edu-IT]

Any RM workstation have local logon switched off, so it needs to be vanilla Windows - and than it is fine

If a person has used a computer before, and their profile exists on the machine, then it's possible for them to logon. Alternatively you can add them as local users to the machine?