Fuel costs

[Guest theeldergeek]

Anyone here considering boycotting mainstream petrol retailers such as Esso or BP as per another campaign I just noted on Facebook? (this one is to boycott Esso and BP long term, not just for a day)

 

Should such campaigns work, or are they destined to fail from the outset for political or economical reasons?

 

Me personally, I'll boycott Esso as they are the most prevalent retailer in this area, but obviously it'll only work if 100's of 1000's of motorists all do the same thing.

 

I pay something like £90 a month on fuel at best, probably more if I scrutinised my expenditure closely enough which I don't see the point of doing because I'd still spend the same, I can't avoid it! Even a saving of £30 a month would benefit me - it'd cover my monthly cost of insurance for example.

 

Perhaps with the current political climate as it is, and the apparent feeling of 'enough is enough' that the politicians speak about the electorate having, has the British public got the fight left in them to actually do something to drive prices down, or is it just another hopeless 'chain' campaign surfacing to coincide in tandem with the forthcoming General Election?

 

Interested to learn what other 'geekers think of such campaigns and whether you would/will actually take an active part.

Edited April 19, 2010 by theeldergeek

[localzuk]

It'll make no difference, even if you buy from independents, they all get their fuel from refineries owned and operated by the big companies anyway. They usually make more money from independent sales too, as they put extra markup on the fuel sold to them...

[BandyQuill]

ive come to terms with the cost of fuel now, its going to go up, take half of my wage and leave me sad for a moment, but having the ability to drive everywhere over-rules the sadness...

[SteveBentley]

Shouldn't the price come down now, due to supply and demand for oil, given that the airlines haven't been using much this week?

[elsiegee40]

Shouldn't the price come down now, due to supply and demand for oil, given that the airlines haven't been using much this week?

 

Unfortunately cars don't run on aviation fuel and, while that will be stockpiled, there has probably been higher than usual demand for petrol and diesel.

[Jamo]

Shouldn't the price come down now, due to supply and demand for oil, given that the airlines haven't been using much this week?

 

Yeah right! Better start toning up my legs for the 37 mile each way bike journey I will soon have to make....

[daz666]

I use tescos its £1.20 a litre seems to go up every week while the cost of a barrel comes down added to that road tax has gone up £15 quid it seems that the goverment want to stop the average man owning a car so the fat cats can have a clear road.

[localzuk]

I use tescos its £1.20 a litre seems to go up every week while the cost of a barrel comes down added to that road tax has gone up £15 quid it seems that the goverment want to stop the average man owning a car so the fat cats can have a clear road.

 

The policy has always been the same - get individual drivers off the roads, and in to trains.

[Gatt]

Its not that the price of a barrel is going up - its the sodding tax on the fuel thats going up.. isnt about 80% of the pump price just tax anyway?

[jamesb]

Anyone here considering boycotting mainstream petrol retailers such as Esso or BP as per another campaign I just noted on Facebook? (this one is to boycott Esso and BP long term, not just for a day)

 

Should such campaigns work, or are they destined to fail from the outset for political or economical reasons?

 

Sadly with fuel they're destined to fail, as localzuk said.

 

The petrol will still be needed, and will still be sold. All it might do is hurt some of the large retailer companies who have the power to try and drive prices down a little because they purchase in such large amounts. A campaign like this would need people to stop driving, or reduce their driving for a time.

 

I'm looking at switching to a bike as soon as I can afford one worth having, and using the car only for longer trips. Hopefully the ever-increasing prices will lead more people to do the same (where they can), but no campaign is going to help as things stand. Not unless there's a change in approach to instead put pressure on the government over the issue, rather than try to attack the production companies via the retailers.

 

I'm not talking about a simple petition or facebook group, but more organised, consistent lobbying by experienced consumer groups with a record of successful campaigns.

 

Me personally, I'll boycott Esso as they are the most prevalent retailer in this area, but obviously it'll only work if 100's of 1000's of motorists all do the same thing.

 

I pay something like £90 a month on fuel at best, probably more if I scrutinised my expenditure closely enough which I don't see the point of doing because I'd still spend the same, I can't avoid it! Even a saving of £30 a month would benefit me - it'd cover my monthly cost of insurance for example.

 

All you can do is look at any way that you can avoid it. Boycotting certain companies won't make a difference, only a reduction in the demand for petrol or properly applied political pressure will even start to bring about a change.

 

Perhaps with the current political climate as it is, and the apparent feeling of 'enough is enough' that the politicians speak about the electorate having, has the British public got the fight left in them to actually do something to drive prices down, or is it just another hopeless 'chain' campaign surfacing to coincide in tandem with the forthcoming General Election?

 

Another hopeless chain. I honestly don't think (and I really, really hope I'm proved wrong on this) that anyone other than the extremist special interest groups have any energy for battles any more. The special interest groups themselves are just inneffective (I still chuckle over the ORG's failed protest - which genius came up with the idea of blank placards for a protest?).

 

Interested to learn what other 'geekers think of such campaigns and whether you would/will actually take an active part.

 

I would love to take more part in effective protests and activism, but I simply don't have the time with work and other things. I have considered taking a stand for the council or similar, but again time, financial concerns, and the lack of a party I'd be willing to associate myself with to gain the required backing currently put these plans on hold.

 

I offer my full support to those who do such things though, particularly candidates who try to consider all of the issues rather than just standing on a single issue and having no idea about others (Pirate Party, I'm looking at you here).

[sippo]

Like Gatt said, its the tax on petrol that furiates me more than anything!

 

They try to penalise people who need cars. I need my car to get to work. I cannot cycle as its too dangerous, I can't get a bus as it would take nearly two hours, and I can't car share as no-one lives near me. So what am I supposed to do? I have to pay whatever it costs.

Edited April 20, 2010 by sippo

[K.C.Leblanc]

My own feeling is the first thing people should do is lobby fuel companies to print a tax breakdown on all their receipts.

 

I suspect if they did this we'd see a return to the blockades within a few months.

 

But really most of the recent increases are down the value of the pound heading south.

[broc]

The policy has always been the same - get individual drivers off the roads, and in to trains.

 

Not quite, the policy has been to encourage people to buy cars, but punish them from driving them

 

Also, in most rural areas of the UK, public transport is expensive & services are patchy or don't exist. Rural users are hit particularly hard by fuel costs, a significant proportion of which is duty payable to the Government.

[creese]

Per litre of crude 8p

Refining 2p

Transport to uk 2p

Transport to pumps 5p

TAX!!! 80p - 90p

approx.

[localzuk]

Not quite, the policy has been to encourage people to buy cars, but punish them from driving them

 

Also, in most rural areas of the UK, public transport is expensive & services are patchy or don't exist. Rural users are hit particularly hard by fuel costs, a significant proportion of which is duty payable to the Government.

 

I didn't say the policy was well implemented... The Labour government have done everything they can to mess up the rail network, and done nothing to improve the bus network since they've been in.

[broc]

Beeching, the great axe-man of our railway system worked for the Tories who had strong ties with the road contruction companies...... at a time when the rest of Europe was rebuilding their rail infrastructure he was cutting ours. There's a Tory legacy for you! Sadly, it was a policy pursued by Labour with about as much enthusiasm..... Edited April 20, 2010 by broc

[jamesb]

Not quite, the policy has been to encourage people to buy cars, but punish them from driving them

 

Also, in most rural areas of the UK, public transport is expensive & services are patchy or don't exist. Rural users are hit particularly hard by fuel costs, a significant proportion of which is duty payable to the Government.

 

Not just rural areas. There is one bus that runs through my village every half hour, from seven in the morning to midnight. Outside of these times there is nothing.

 

The bus is not cheap by any stretch, and delivers people to the town centre. If I were to use bus services to get to work I would then need to catch another two buses from there, for a total travel time of an hour and a half. Alternatively I have a six mile drive directly to work.

 

I do plan to start cycling, as I have said, however to avoid the main road dual carriageway which heads directly to my work I will instead need to take a ten mile trip along back roads. Not that I'm unhappy about this, I've walked the route a couple of times and the scenery is lovely, but it's not a practical distance for me to walk to work and I don't currently have a bike.

 

Edit: To clarify - despite living in a village it couldn't really be counted as rural. The town centre is about five miles away.

Edited April 20, 2010 by jamesb
Clarification

[SteveBentley]

The policy has always been the same - get individual drivers off the roads, and in to trains.

 

Which would be fine if they actually put some investment into the railways for the amount of rolling stock that is needed. A 25 year old, 2-carriage cattle truck twice an hour just doesn't cut it.

 

The government needs to decide whether it wants privatised railways or not - it seems to want to have its cake and eat it with the DFT deciding which operators are going to get which rolling stock.

[sted]

Beeching, the great axe-man of our railway system worked for the Tories who had strong ties with the road contruction companies...... at a time when the rest of Europe was rebuilding their rail infrastructure he was cutting ours. There's a Tory legacy for you! Sadly, it was a policy pursued by Labour with about as much enthusiasm.....

 

not to mention maggie thatcher dergulating them so instead of being run by local authoritys to make a small profit/break even they are run by companies and you cant blame them for making money thats what they exist for. But its silly the cost of public transport i can remember it being 20p to go to town and back now its nearer £4 and town is 4 miles away.

 

I cant really cut down on driving if it wasnt for work i wouldnt own a car (luckily my road tax has come down this year to £30) but 500 miles a week with the price of derv isnt fun.

 

When i can i do use public transport like when im on training courses in leeds centre but its 2 trains and last time in the 4 days i used it the first small rotbox train was late 4 times (all over 20 mins) and the rail company employess know why they just wont adjust the timetable to cope which makes a timetable pointless

[sidewinder]

Probably a bit of a 'I'm alright jack' attitude but it really doesnt affect me too much. Obviously I'd like petrol to be cheaper but as it is, I drive a lot less for non work reasons (cycle, walk, train) so I end up not spending any more at all - so all the increased tax is doing is making me drive less...which is fine with me.

 

I do feel sorry for those that live far from work with no public transport, it must hurt you, but when most of the people (from my group of friends) who moan live close to work or have other options of getting there without driving, or just drive to walkable distances around town because they're lazy, it doesnt make me very sympathetic.

 

Of course the railways need massive, massive improvment before they're capable of carrying extra capacity who have abandoned cars, and privatisation looks utterly incapable of providing that.

 

Per litre of crude 8p

Refining 2p

Transport to uk 2p

Transport to pumps 5p

TAX!!! 80p - 90p

approx.

 

Source? That looks way out

Granted this is a year out of date and tax has gone up since, but not that much!

What makes up the cost of 1 litre of petrol?

Edited April 20, 2010 by sidewinder

[localzuk]

Source? That looks way out

Granted this is a year out of date and tax has gone up since, but not that much!

What makes up the cost of 1 litre of petrol?

 

Its not *that* out... The tax comes to ~63p according to that site, for £1 a litre fuel. ie. 63% tax...

[sidewinder]

Forgot about adding the VAT. Why do I never think before I post?

[Jamo]

Its not *that* out... The tax comes to ~63p according to that site, for £1 a litre fuel. ie. 63% tax...

 

 

... yes and he was quoting over 80% tax!

 

Don't forget that fuel duty is not proportionate to the cost of petrol over time, wheras VAT is. All we are seeing in tax rises is keeping the same percentage of fuel duty in real terms, not an increase as some people see it.

[localzuk]

... yes and he was quoting over 80% tax!

 

Don't forget that fuel duty is not proportionate to the cost of petrol over time, wheras VAT is. All we are seeing in tax rises is keeping the same percentage of fuel duty in real terms, not an increase as some people see it.

 

Considering the cost of crude dropped, and fuel duty didn't, I don't buy it.

[Jamo]

But then the pound has dropped hugely in value compared, so in proportion again it is actually at a similar price to the last 1.20 price hikes we saw. Blame the economy! In fact blame the stupid monetry system that we live in! Fractional reserve banking is not sustainable and just causes inflation, debt and only the filthy rich get richer.