Fuel costs

[creese]

Again though these places were built long before the volume of traffic currently seen by the roads was forseen. They were not designed this way to handle this traffic.

 

The examples you have suggested are countermeasures to reduce the amount of traffic which is great but it still doesn't prove that roads are designed to slow us down!

 

If we could prove that they are designed that way, the government wouldn't be doing their job.

 

Bristol roads are designed to make traffic drive into it. The fact that the ring road is best described as a brackets road as it is not a complete ring and unlikely to be in the foreseeable future means that cars cannot drive around the city. There is an ongoing experiment with traffic lights (that are recently installed) are being switched off. Traffic lights slow traffic down unnecessarily.

[Jamo]

If Bristol roads didn't allow traffic in, it would be a pretty un eventful city...

 

They are experimenting with the traffic lights due to a study in Norway or Sweden which suggested that allowing drivers to drive across more dangerous junctions like that made them much more cautious and improved traffic flow. Still doesn't prove that people are actively designing roads to be a pain!

 

Anyway we all know the solution to everything is to put all the chavs in a rocket and send them to space camp. Roads would be much safer Plus think of all the metal and waste we could save not having those stupid body kits on cars!

[creese]

If Bristol roads didn't allow traffic in, it would be a pretty un eventful city...

 

They are experimenting with the traffic lights due to a study in Norway or Sweden which suggested that allowing drivers to drive across more dangerous junctions like that made them much more cautious and improved traffic flow. Still doesn't prove that people are actively designing roads to be a pain!

 

Anyway we all know the solution to everything is to put all the chavs in a rocket and send them to space camp. Roads would be much safer Plus think of all the metal and waste we could save not having those stupid body kits on cars!

 

Now I can't take you seriously. The experiment was not due to that. Roundabouts already have that effect. So switching lights off on them would prove nothing. I have and never will see a reason for lights on a roundabout except..................... To Slow Traffic Down..... but of course it doesn't do that does it???

[broc]

There are many places in the world that have good public transport, with integrated buses/trams/ trains etc. The only way this can be done is if the public transport is just that, NOT run by private companies for profit. They can never run at a loss, or run uneconomic routes for the benefit of a few passengers.

 

I agree. One of the best places to see this work in practice is Switzerland.... fully integrated, on time, and when I was visiting Interlaken recently they even provided free local bus tickets for foreign visitors to encourage you to stay in their town.

[Jamo]

Now I can't take you seriously. The experiment was not due to that. Roundabouts already have that effect. So switching lights off on them would prove nothing. I have and never will see a reason for lights on a roundabout except..................... To Slow Traffic Down..... but of course it doesn't do that does it???

 

BBC - BBC Radio 4 Programmes - Material World, 11/03/2010

 

You should listen to this then

 

http://askbristol.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/traffic-signal-trial/

[creese]

BBC - BBC Radio 4 Programmes - Material World, 11/03/2010

 

You should listen to this then

 

Traffic signal switch-off trial

 

Have done. That's from where I formed my opinion. Especially knowing where they turned off the lights. The places where they are least likely to show a significant difference. The BBC is not the Gospel according to news. People who regularly drive around the city know more than "closely monitored by CCTV throughout the trial ", if it was closely monitored by computer systems designed to monitor traffic flow and closely monitored before and after AND it was used on sensible sets of lights I would take notice.

 

Edit: Monitored before and after for a lengthy period, I should have said. One junction (or two) does not a road system make.

Edited April 22, 2010 by creese
Added to

[creese]

I would also add that there is no suggestion of a plan to follow the sandinavian idea quoted. That was in small towns. I accept there is a need for lights at some junctions, roundabouts at others. But why both? and why at nearly every junction.

 

I'm all in favour or 'intelligent' lights that don't stop you at every junction and don't stop you while you wait for nothing coming from left or right.

[srochford]

Is there not an argument that more (and wider) roads would decrease congestion, speed up traffic and thus reduce the amount of wasted time on the roads. The longer people are stuck on the m25 not going anywhere, the longer they are polluting the atmosphere.

 

The M25 is one of the best examples of why making roads wider doesn't reduce congestion but just encourages more people to drive, probably making journeys they would not previously have made. It was built (I think) as 3 lanes wide in each direction but got busier and so got widened. Parts of it are now 6 lanes wide in each direction and still it's busy. Introducing variable speed limits has helped to keep traffic moving (if everyone goes at 50mph you get more vehicles per hour going past any point because you can pack them in more tightly)

 

There probably is a limit to how much car use will grow but I don't think we're any where near that limit yet. There are some interesting stats here about growth of car ownership. When I was a kid few people had cars (and I know that's a long time ago :-)), now it seems automatic that people expect to have cars from the age of 17. That's not necessarily a bad thing (it's part of the "you've never had it so good") but it does mean that some things don't work.

 

I think we need different strategies for different parts of the country; public transport can work well in big cities because you've got enough people making the same journeys which mean that in London you only wait 2-3 minutes for a tube or 5-6 minutes for a bus. It's not bad between the big cities (far easier for me to catch a train if I go to Liverpool or Manchester than to drive) but it's harder to make it work in smaller towns or in rural areas - too few people want to go from A to B at the same time.

[Guest theeldergeek]

We have quite a good road 'feeder' system into our town. A newly built dual carriage-way cum by-pass which brings inbound traffic straight into .... a single carriage road with traffic lights and roundabout. Inbound traffic therefore has to give way to traffic which is poodling from one part of the town to the other or exiting a pub and gym car park. Pathetic and unforgivable road planning.

[creese]

We have quite a good road 'feeder' system into our town. A newly built dual carriage-way cum by-pass which brings inbound traffic straight into .... a single carriage road with traffic lights and roundabout. Inbound traffic therefore has to give way to traffic which is poodling from one part of the town to the other or exiting a pub and gym car park. Pathetic and unforgivable road planning.

 

My point exactly. They are too keen to create bottle necks and blockages.

 

One road I frquently used was reduced in width at the junction so that both cars turning right and left could not wait side by side any longer. When the road was clear only one car could pull out instead of two.

[Sarconia]

My point exactly. They are too keen to create bottle necks and blockages.

 

One road I frquently used was reduced in width at the junction so that both cars turning right and left could not wait side by side any longer. When the road was clear only one car could pull out instead of two.

 

That's exactly what they did in my hometown at numerous junctions and roundabouts. People still continue to attempt to sit side by side one another though, it's just that now doing so made it a bit dangerous as you're likely to have a minor prang.

 

Then again, they've not got a clue round there, the council put two exercise bikes (in a useless attempt to get the local people exercising) in a box in the middle of the local field once, within less than a month they'd been vandalised and had been declared unsafe for public use.

[creese]

I lived in Germany for a few years in the 70s. A while ago I know but I never felt the need to own a car, until i returned to the UK.

 

Prague is another place to visit for a good transport system, one ticket for bus or tram. Hop on and off as you like. South Africa however is totally the opposite, you can hardly survive without a car, unless you want to risk the minibuses and have time to wait until they fill up.

[Martin]

The M25 is one of the best examples...

 

...of how not to build a motorway!!!

 

It should have been a true "orbital", only connecting other motorways, so that through traffic could avoid local traffic.

 

But no, the stupid planners put junctions at just about every village it passed, so that local commuters join the motorway, immediately swing across all 3, 4, 5 or 6 lanes to be in the "fast" lane and then swing all the way back again at the last second at the next junction to get off. For much of the time, lanes 1,2 (and 3 and 4) are empty - we need proper traffic police educating the motorway morons, not cameras enforcing lower speed limits!

 

mb

[Jamo]

...of how not to build a motorway!!!

 

It should have been a true "orbital", only connecting other motorways, so that through traffic could avoid local traffic.

 

But no, the stupid planners put junctions at just about every village it passed, so that local commuters join the motorway, immediately swing across all 3, 4, 5 or 6 lanes to be in the "fast" lane and then swing all the way back again at the last second at the next junction to get off. For much of the time, lanes 1,2 (and 3 and 4) are empty - we need proper traffic police educating the motorway morons, not cameras enforcing lower speed limits!

 

mb

 

If it only connected to motorways.... how would you get on it without going through the centre of loads of towns effectively clogging up the smaller roads.

 

Lets face it, too many people live in too small an area. You will never win, they create more roads and more people get cars. Roads get bigger and people fill em with bigger cars.

[Martin]

...and don't get me started on cycle lanes

 

Britain's barmiest bike lane that is WIDER than the car lane

 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/21/article-1267554-093A055F000005DC-179_636x477.jpg

 

mb

[Polski]

Filled the faithfull hatchback up earlier this week, 478 miles for £40.79 worth of fuel. Not bad for a 2.0 litre.

 

But then I avoid Shell, BP, Tesco etc......my preferred point of sale is Calor Gas.

[creese]

I think most traffic management is designed by people who never drive in that locale, have never lived there and will never live there. Here for instance we have someone who has vast experience of London traffic. That's a whole different ball game to a small compact city full of hills with a rubbish public transport system, where people have different 'rules' of how to drive.

[sted]

...of how not to build a motorway!!!

 

It should have been a true "orbital", only connecting other motorways, so that through traffic could avoid local traffic.

 

But no, the stupid planners put junctions at just about every village it passed, so that local commuters join the motorway, immediately swing across all 3, 4, 5 or 6 lanes to be in the "fast" lane and then swing all the way back again at the last second at the next junction to get off. For much of the time, lanes 1,2 (and 3 and 4) are empty - we need proper traffic police educating the motorway morons, not cameras enforcing lower speed limits!

 

mb

 

and the m25 was never designed to be there on its own is was the outer ring of 3 (i believe) (though i think technically its part of 2 of the original rings rather than just the outer one)

 

Signage would also help i know in places ive been flowing signs for somewhere and then all of a sudden no signs and i end up driving round aimlessly trying to pick more signs up again and there are signs in leeds for the m1 that take you on what i would consider a totally stupid route into the city centre rather than round it which would probably be quicker and easier but add a mile or 2

[creese]

and the m25 was never designed to be there on its own is was the outer ring of 3 (i believe) (though i think technically its part of 2 of the original rings rather than just the outer one)

 

Signage would also help i know in places ive been flowing signs for somewhere and then all of a sudden no signs and i end up driving round aimlessly trying to pick more signs up again and there are signs in leeds for the m1 that take you on what i would consider a totally stupid route into the city centre rather than round it which would probably be quicker and easier but add a mile or 2

 

Good excuse for a Sat Nav purchase. Or an Android phone complete with FREE Google Maps Naviagtion.

[sted]

i have one and do use it but sometimes the routes it picks are obtuse to say the least and sometimes i cba getting it out etc. and i have nokia maps and google maps on the phone but again its odd when a destination on signs just seem to disappear

[creese]

i have one and do use it but sometimes the routes it picks are obtuse to say the least and sometimes i cba getting it out etc. and i have nokia maps and google maps on the phone but again its odd when a destination on signs just seem to disappear

 

Again, it is probably someone sat in an office say put one here, the next here and another just up there, instead of someone driving the route and looking at the best places, leaving no gaps. Preferably someone who doesn't know the route following along to test it. In the long run it would 'save the planet'.

[sippo]

Shell announce £3.2 Billion profits!!

 

BBC News - Royal Dutch Shell profits up 50% on oil price

[nicholab]

Check you tyre pressure every week!! I bet most people don't I do it it when I refuel once a week for my 250mile round trip.

[Martin]

Shell announce £3.2 Billion profits!!

 

BBC News - Royal Dutch Shell profits up 50% on oil price

 

 

But that is on revenues of $86B, so their actual percentage profit is less than, say, Tesco (5.6% versus 5.9%) - and supermaket margins are very small!

 

mb

[6Foot2]

When i can i do use public transport like when im on training courses in leeds centre but its 2 trains and last time in the 4 days i used it the first small rotbox train was late 4 times (all over 20 mins) and the rail company employess know why they just wont adjust the timetable to cope which makes a timetable pointless

 

Talking of rail and timetables here is a link to a comprehensive list for all things rail [Valid 23 May 2010 - December 2010]

 

Items covered: Stations index, Route index/Timetable links, Network diagrams links, References and symbols, Commercial information, Sleeper Services, Passenger Representation, Network Map, Schematic Map, Complete timetable [Format: PDF]

 

Link: Network Rail - Forthcoming timetable