sparkeh Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 No, I'm sorry - that is completely the wrong attitude to have! M'kay let me stop you right there. Didn't say it was my attitude but the what has been pointed out time and time again from the highest level in most of these tiresome threads. Regardless of what my own opinion is, that's the way it is.
localzuk Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 The problem is, you can't please everyone all the time. Also, if everything was discussed in community, for every decision, nothing would get done. I've been involved in groups that worked by consensus - and they never got any work done, they just spent all their time discussing policies. It has been said many times by the top bods that this site is not a democracy, what Dos_Box says, goes. The admins are an extension of his word, and what they say also goes. Mods do their best, under instruction from the above, but they are not infallible. The way the site is run is right in my view - discussions about policies would turn this site into a place full of bickering polarised debates, where people focus on the running of the site rather than the use of the site for its intended purpose. This is why I dislike threads like this one - this should have been dealt with privately. 1
elsiegee40 Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 The thing is, and I'm more than willing to be corrected by him, Dos_Box does not have time to moderate posts, which is why he has moderators. They work on a voluntary basis and I don't know, or need to know, how they are chosen. They do a pretty good job. With regard to RingOfFlame's complaint. I don't think there's an intention to deliberately target her. If the mods had had enough they'd block the account, it wouldn't be the first time. Others have had rocky starts here and have gone on to be well thought of members of the community. I would name names, but I don't want to embarrass them! I do think that RingOfFlame does, on occasion, come in a bit too hard in threads. It may not be intentional, but it does rub people up the wrong way and I too have felt that she has shouted at me when it was not warranted. Some people are less willing to let it go and so instantly react badly whenever she posts, I have noticed that too. @RingOfFlame if you are feeling victimised on your current posting ID, there is always the alternative of creating a new account to turn over a new leaf. You may feel that you shouldn't have to do this, but it may be easier to make a fresh start... and count to 10, then re-read what you have typed before you post! 1
enjay Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 Aside from any issues surrounding the censorship debate, now becoming a democracy debate too, shouldn't we also consider that many of us are in schools which have word filters in place, so using expletives in a post could result in us being unable to view the advice surrounding it. That is surely a more sensible reason to avoid the swear words, and in such instances a mod would be right to remove them. 2
EduTech Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 (edited) with regards to the old post's, and/or posts that may have not been picked up, myself and other mods on a late evening when we have not got much to do are doing searches agaist the forum for the words in which we think at the moment are inappropriate and removing/editing them so that we can get as many done as possible. This is something we dont have to do but it helps resolve the question in which you have raised. So to answer your question RoF yes we are doing all we can to get all the posts removed it just takes a bit of time thats all. As stated in an earlier post by domino, we are currently reviewing the inappropriate word list and it is under heavy discussion and actually has been for a while we are just finishing up some of the last niggles. The reason things like this take some time is because we do actually look at it from all angles so we can get it right rather than giving everyone something that has been knocked up in a few minutes. We remove the inappropriate language because it is not appropriate for schools, colleges etc or for LEA Filters that are in place that may block edugeek if this kind of content appears, in which case it would cause alot of headache for members who may feel the wrath of this. Anyhow, We are currently speaking with ZH to try and get a few things in place so that if you do post it by accident or in jest the system will pick it up and not actually post that word, self-moderation should be all that is required though to be honest. Please bare with us, as said we cannot monitor the forums 24/7 although we do try our best you will probably see at least 1 mod on through out the day but when you consider the amount of posts that appear on here in just ONE day it's not easy which is why we rely on you as members to "report" the post's and then we all get an email and can action it ASAP. Yes again this could take a bit of time, but if a mod is online it's pretty instant. @Ringofflame - This would of been better to have been brought up in a PM/Email to the Mods/Admins rather than starting up another thread like this. We have said before as we have told other people if you have a problem and wish to find an answer BUT you know it is going to probably cause a big "Ruckus" on the forums then "Message the Admins" or send a mod a PM and we will raise the concern in the Mod Forums. NOTE This is only for questions of concern, anything post related please "Report" the post. James. Edited March 29, 2010 by EduTech 1
mb2k01 Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 M'kay let me stop you right there. Didn't say it was my attitude but the what has been pointed out time and time again from the highest level in most of these tiresome threads. Regardless of what my own opinion is, that's the way it is. If I offended / wrongly-accused / misinterperated I am sorry. To clarify and generalise... People who de-value this community, regardless of who they are / how much they contribute / what position they hold should stop and consider why they came here in the first place. I see nothing wrong with consulting with eachother, having frank discussions on changes that need to be made and having aspirations for the product. It may not be our property but it is our resource and something we put time and effort in to. If that is all so unreasonable or unthinkable then perhaps I am either in the wrong place or just misguided!
Gatt Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 CAn I just put my 2p in.. We should all be very careful with what we put on this site At the end of the day - this site is used within education environments - so technically any post could be seen by a child as young as 5! The site is also being looked at by some very high profile companies in this industry, and is being reckognised as a major player in the Education sectors - the last thing we want to be doing is lowering ourselves to some of the other forums out there (TES anyone?) Think about what you post the same way you would when you are talking in front of kids - would you swear in front of them? No, you wouldn't - so dont type it. I shall leave it to the Admins and the Mods to decide what goes into any word filter.. 2
GrumbleDook Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 Time to jump in one last time before heading off to the gym for a sauna and steam (yes ... I have another day off). I do find it really funny that so many of us work with and operate some severe word filters with little choice to the users ... and we don't give them any choice ... even staff (who are, in spite of what some might think, adults and mature) don't get much (if any) choice ... we do it *to* them ... no democracy ... some debate but not much ... Amazing how a group such as ourselves would see that use of language that has previously been pointed out as unsuitable (for various reasons ... even if it is the simple fact that it will get caught by filters) even needs to be discussed. At the moment ... it is a manual job and not as consistent as it could be ... but that is because DB prefers self-moderation as we are all adult / mature / responsible. Perhaps we should just accept the folk are fallible. 1
elsiegee40 Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 Time to jump in one last time before heading off to the gym for a sauna and steam (yes ... I have another day off).
CHR1S Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 (edited) So many opinions, so little time! Its a tough area to police and different people in different countries/areas consider different words more offensive than others. The site is aimed at adults and proffessionals who "should" know the difference between right and wrong and should be given the freedom to use the slightly risque language like ****or ***** (just for ROF lol). I hear worse on TV daily, even in the playground from the little darlings them selves! So are we going to lose these fringe words for the sake of our filters or are we allowed to express our more stressful feelings with an air of slight controversy? EDIT - Wow being edited for trying to make a point, why isnt ***** filtered out?? Edited March 30, 2010 by MkII language 1
Mako Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 Another Mod-directed thread. I still stand by everything I said here. 1
CAM Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 Bad language must be removed quickly from thread titles as it affects the URL name and some filters are more stringent on the address of a site then the content. One thread on here has the word unblock in the title which goes in the URL and triggers my LEA filtering to block that one thread based on that single, inoffensive word in the title, even though EduGeek is classified as LA Allowed. Odd filtering system but it's one reason even inoffensive words can cause problems, so the less offensive ones the better. Everyone makes slip-ups though and a decent web filter will reflect this (else most of The Register would be blocked).
CHR1S Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 After chatting to Witch I want to point out the reason behind my post above as Witch highlited my feelings exactly. Why was one word censored and the other not? You can hear both words used on the simpsons at 5:30 on channel 4 but on here one is deemed worth of censorship and a PM and the other is simply over looked. Im not having a go at how good or bad the moderating is or whatever I just want to point out that this can be an unending task and a line has to be drawn and whats considered offensive or just plain picky!
RingOfFlame Posted March 29, 2010 Author Posted March 29, 2010 So many opinions, so little time! Its a tough area to police and different people in different countries/areas consider different words more offensive than others. The site is aimed at adults and proffessionals who "should" know the difference between right and wrong and should be given the freedom to use the slightly risque language like ****or fanny (just for ROF lol). I hear worse on TV daily, even in the playground from the little darlings them selves! So are we going to lose these fringe words for the sake of our filters or are we allowed to express our more stressful feelings with an air of slight controversy? EDIT - Wow being edited for trying to make a point, why isnt fanny filtered out?? What is wrong with my fanny You make a good point though. I could say ... is a jerk and 99% of people would not think anything of it. However if I was to add a w to to a certain nautical item I am sure there would be many complaints etc when at the end of the day both words mean the same thing.
ahuxham Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 What is wrong with my fanny Want a game of Doctors and Nurses and I'll show you?
enjay Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 However if I was to add a w to to a certain nautical item I am sure there would be many complaints etc when at the end of the day both words mean the same thing. And if you went for the seemingly harmless "berk", you'd have anyone who knows Cockney rhyming slack up in arms, while everyone else would think you'd toned your words down... 2
TechMonkey Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 Well you learn something new everyday! That is definitely going down as my fact for the day & I shall start using berk with even more gusto
Guest theeldergeek Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 self-moderation should be all that is required though to be honest. It should, but I doubt it ever will be. @Ringofflame - This would of been better to have been brought up in a PM/Email to the Mods/Admins rather than starting up another thread like this. One wonders however, if such a PM/Email would have carried the same title as the forum message does? I doubt it. This thread was started for no other reason than to stir things up, again. Isn't that obvious?
Oops_my_bad Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 Would this not have been more suited to PM to an admin, or use the admin forum to get an answer, rather than starting what is effectively a 'CENSORSHIP!!!' thread? And let it get swept under the carpet? No. 1
Guest theeldergeek Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 CAn I just put my 2p in.. We should all be very careful with what we put on this site At the end of the day - this site is used within education environments - so technically any post could be seen by a child as young as 5! The site is also being looked at by some very high profile companies in this industry, and is being reckognised as a major player in the Education sectors - the last thing we want to be doing is lowering ourselves to some of the other forums out there (TES anyone?) Think about what you post the same way you would when you are talking in front of kids - would you swear in front of them? No, you wouldn't - so dont type it. I don't subscribe to the "it could be viewed by children as young as..." camp I'm afraid. So can any other forum on the Internet. And like any other forum on the Internet, you get a cross section of society who will agree/disagree, sometimes in colourful terms. Try Usenet if you want shock value! However, what I do subscribe to, and in a roundabout way I therefore agree with 'Gatt', is that we should all conduct ourselves professionally. We are, after all, generally posting under the guise of IT Professionals working with young people, in educational establishments, and/or professional businesses. OK, you'll get the occasional 'slip', but that is no more than you will get in any office conversation/debate, and is to be expected. However, of course, we all undoubtedly come from different backgrounds and have different standards. I personally do not find the word "c - r - a - p" offensive in any way, but I appreciate others might, so it's not a word I would generally use in a forum. Apart from just then, of course.... I do not like hearing the "F" word particularly, but I use it myself, occasionally, but not generally outside of the company of people I am comfortable in using it with. However, it certainly isn't a word I would openly use in a forum such as Edugeek, but I would, and have used it within the Usenet 'community'. If someone calls me a geek in the derogatory context, I am offended but yet I subscribe to a 'Geek' forum! huh?? So, if a 5 year old calls me a Geek, because he/she has been taught in school/by his/her parents that I'm a bit of an oddball, should I be offended and not type the same in a forum? Or if my local garage really screwed a repair on my car, can I not say what a c**p service it was? I think the moral of the story is clear - We all have different standards so it is down to moderation to ensure that those standards comply with a common goal, because, as individuals, we are all kicking our balls between ever moving goal posts. Sorry, did I just say "balls", what I meant was footballs, you know, as in FA Cup, UEFA.... ..
creese Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 Just a thought but some forums use the word 'carp', will this word one day be classed as offensive?
Guest theeldergeek Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 And let it get swept under the carpet? No. Let what be swept under the carpet? The fact that the OP thinks the mods/admins have double standards or something else?
Guest theeldergeek Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 Just a thought but some forums use the word 'carp', will this word one day be classed as offensive? Please, I'm still trying to work out how a "w" and the word "anchor" could be combined offensively, as RoF would have us believe is the case. {tap on shoulder} oh, right, I see....
ahuxham Posted March 29, 2010 Posted March 29, 2010 if you ignore her she might just go away lol:p Aww, no, some of us like her, and wouldn't want her to go away 1
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