Sikh judge Sir Mota Singh criticises banning of Kirpan

[CHR1S]

From - BBC News - Sikh judge Sir Mota Singh criticises banning of Kirpan

 

Ok this isnt a rant more of a WTF!!

 

Why cant this idiot realise that its banned because its a leathal weapon and not an attack at a persons religion??

 

Hes an ex-judge ffs!!

[solitaire89]

Playing devil's advocate here - how many techs carry a leatherman/swiss army? Not trolling, and not agreeing/disgreeing with the ruling - just food for thought.

[CHR1S]

But were talking about mature (ish) adults vs children here.

[solitaire89]

Sorry, I read it as being banning everyone from wearing them in schools... Sorry So what's the call with swiss army knives on D of E then (for kids)?

[Tricky_Dicky]

Surely this needs to be put into perspective a bit. We are not talking about people walking around with swords, they are small ceremonial knives and as far as I can recall(and I would be happy to be corrected) one has never been used in a knife attack in this country.

Instead of just banning everything that may be dangerous, how about we trust people until proven other wise and then properly punish those that can't be trusted.

[CHR1S]

Sorry, I read it as being banning everyone from wearing them in schools... Sorry So what's the call with swiss army knives on D of E then (for kids)?

 

I agree its a double edged sword (see what I did there ) My point was that for me anyway he cant see past the religious factor in an OMG thats racist kind of way

[localzuk]

It is up to individual schools to decide - the law has a defence for both public carrying of religious weaponry and for carrying such an item on school grounds also - pretty much meaning that it is legal to carry them.

 

However, to say that schools shouldn't be able to make policies on this is idiotic. There are schools in the UK which are in violent areas, where knife crime is a regular occurrence - to allow an exception to a ban on knives in school for this type of instrument would mean a sudden increase in people claiming to be Sikhs and these knives being used for offensive purposes. Much like there has been an increase in bank robberies by people wearing burkhas lately.

 

It isn't about persecuting anyone for religious reasons, its about common sense. And common sense dictates that a child carrying a knife in school is dangerous. Not because that child may use it, but because those who are more dangerous might take it and use it.

[solitaire89]

see what I did there

Hmm... Could do better

 

 

Surely this needs to be put into perspective a bit. We are not talking about people walking around with swords, they are small ceremonial knives and as far as I can recall(and I would be happy to be corrected) one has never been used in a knife attack in this country.

Instead of just banning everything that may be dangerous, how about we trust people until proven other wise and then properly punish those that can't be trusted.

 

I agree - but then the laws on carying knives are very mis-understood in this country.... Whether they're ceremonial, in my handbag as a "tool of the trade", or in some yob's pocket as a weapon.

[Guest richard_s]

The thing is anything can be used as a weapon so do we ban pens, pencils rulers etc...... and what about the cutlery in the canteen?

[nicholab]

Could they not have a plastic one as it is a symbol of faith?

[solitaire89]

Could they not have a plastic one as it is a symbol of faith?

 

I believe not....

[Theblacksheep]

Why is religion the new top trump card?

[Guest richard_s]

So they ban Sikh's from wearing their articles of faith then we should also ban Muslims from wearing the Hijab and the Burka and Christians from wearing a Crucifix.

[localzuk]

So they ban Sikh's from wearing their articles of faith then we should also ban Muslims from wearing the Hijab and the Burka and Christians from wearing a Crucifix.

 

They do in many schools - they aren't uniform, so they aren't allowed. I know most NHS trusts ban these sort of things too.

[solitaire89]

So they ban Sikh's from wearing their articles of faith then we should also ban Muslims from wearing the Hijab and the Burka and Christians from wearing a Crucifix.

 

Oh, hold on, haven't they already done this?!

[Theblacksheep]

So they ban Sikh's from wearing their articles of faith then we should also ban Muslims from wearing the Hijab and the Burka and Christians from wearing a Crucifix.

 

I do believe we are already going down this road.... was a BA cabin crew member asked to remove her 'fix? (or cross).

[pete]

Leathermans (or at least my skeletool) don't fall under the 1953 act because they're usually 3" or less and have folding blades.

 

If Kirpans are usually (always?) worn underneath clothing and out of sight (and the kid ensures they don't flash it around the changing room where the local inbred idiots will see it), it shouldn't be a problem.

 

Is a blunt Kirpan an option? Like blunter than marmalade?

[synaesthesia]

the knives/weapons/forks/wet fish are not dangerous - the people who hold or use them may or may not be. They should be fixing the people, not putting blame on the tools.

[laserblazer]

As I see it, a precendent is set. Then some mindless thug get excluded for bringing in a knife and the next thing the school is hit with a law suit for discrimination. In any other country in the world, this would not be a problem but our stupid legal system is just as likely to uphold it!

[solitaire89]

Leathermans (or at least my skeletool) don't fall under the 1953 act because they're usually 3" or less and have folding blades.

 

Kirpans can be under 3" too - that was what I was getting at I don't see any diffence between carrying a leatherman to carrying a kirpan

[DrummerBoy]

I saw the Judge on morning TV and he did make the point that there has never been an instance of a Shikh oulling this knife, and being prosecuted for improper use.

 

He also, quite rightly, pointed out that if it is used illeagally then you get prosecuted.

 

As it stands we do not teach our children how to handle this type of item (their religion does teach them), and if we did teach people resposible handling of 'dangerous' items, we'd have less harm in society from them.

 

We are that risk averse that we can no longer see the wood from the H&S trees. Just my £0.02, flame away!!

[featured_spectre]

The Sikh religion only allows the pulling of the Kirpan if its a life or death situation, and only then, the intent should not be to kill the other person / people, but injure so you can escape/evade.

 

Also once the Kirpan is drawn, the Sihk cannot put it back without spilling blood (much like the Kuhkri for the Gurkha), and to my recollection, I have never known a Sikh to pull his Kirpan.

[danIT]

I went to a Sikh school, I only occasionally caught site if a Kirpan and didn't ever feel threatened by it or the kids wearing them.

 

Much more scary is the long thin piece of metal, knitting needle type, that they used to use to tuck there hair back into there turban.

 

I was told that they couldn't draw the Kirpan to threaten, only to act. Could be the usual teenage B$.

[solitaire89]

Also once the Kirpan is drawn, the Sihk cannot put it back without spilling blood (much like the Kuhkri for the Gurkha)

 

And the same with the Scottish Sgian Dubh (small knife worn with full Scottish dress) - only problem is that 9 times out of 10 they're blunt, and if you get a true Scots man and it's drawn, they will still try to draw their own blood...

[witch]

But now that other little darlings know that Sikhs all carry a knife....thanks to that Judge..

What's to stop them frisking a Sikh in order to take the Kirpan?

 

I am with the French who do not allow any religious symbols in their schools - presumably there are Sikhs in France? How do they cope with this restriction?