Haptic Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Hey guys After watching the news earlier with more media coverage of Gary McKinnon's case I cant help but think to myself this fella is going to be made a example of in a big way, Whats your thoughts on this do you see Gary McKinnon as a guy with talent just searching for the truth pushed by a condition that doesnt let you think to far ahead of whats your actions could do to you or do you see all hackers as the enemy of technology,
FN-GM Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Talented but an idiot. He hacked into NASA and the US military. This is pretty serious stuff. They will make an example of him. I remember a few years ago did someone from a high school hack into NASA? Or am i imagining this?
featured_spectre Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 last person to do this was an australian, he is now a national security advisor for the US after his prison term. Was in 2000 I think
Theblacksheep Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 He wasnt exactly your ethecal hacker by warning them about it, but its not as if he actually caused malicious damage. With the UK making a one way extradition law to the US which was basicly just for him, its clear the US really want him. Its not looking good and they could have closed this up a long time ago, but they are making him out as if hes some kind of ultimate ninja hacker to cover for their own incompetance, inability to follow federal law for securing computers and embaresment that someone could get into the NSA, NASA and the Pentagon. You also get the feeling that hes seen some stuff he shouldnt. Nothing a good trip via a stop over in a military base in Yemen wont fix tho. Good luck Gary.
Haptic Posted August 11, 2009 Author Posted August 11, 2009 last person to do this was an australian, he is now a national security advisor for the US after his prison term. Was in 2000 I think a very valid point that questions why they havent just give him a job lol
Michael Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 a very valid point that questions why they havent just give him a job lol He's committed a crime so should be punished accordingly. I do have reservations about the amount of damage you can do bearing in mind I re-call (at the time) he was doing this over a dial-up connection. What's always confused me, is the US easily have the money and resources available to make their networks physically separate from the world wide web, so why don't they do it? I suspect in reality they'll put him in prison for a number of years, then offer him a deal to work with/for the agencies he allegedly attacked. Did he read confidential information on UFOs? I highly doubt it to be honest. Type in UFO on youtube and there are loads of stories/theories and most of them can be explained. Maybe he should of looked here first?
Haptic Posted August 11, 2009 Author Posted August 11, 2009 Type in UFO on youtube and there are loads of stories/theories and most of them can be explained. Maybe he should of looked here first? A totally other debate me thinks lol;)
somabc Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 He's committed a crime so should be punished accordingly. I do have reservations about the amount of damage you can do bearing in mind I re-call (at the time) he was doing this over a dial-up connection. What's always confused me, is the US easily have the money and resources available to make their networks physically separate from the world wide web, so why don't they do it? I suspect in reality they'll put him in prison for a number of years, then offer him a deal to work with/for the agencies he allegedly attacked. I agree he has committed a crime by accessing the systems ideally he would have been tried here and given a minor sentence as the systems were insecure and he was not maliciously copying or destroying data (AFAIK). The authorities here have shown no interest in prosecution so he should be tried in the USA but again I would only give a minor sentence. The US Military's main argument is that they had to spend a lot of time and money ($700,000+) securing all their systems after he broke in. Well they should have done that in the 1st place so I don't see how they can argue that he caused financial damage. TBH if they do make an example of him and send him to Federal Prison for 20+years it's unlikely he would come out alive given the level of violence in the US Prison system.
Haptic Posted August 11, 2009 Author Posted August 11, 2009 TBH if they do make an example of him and send him to Federal Prison for 20+years it's unlikely he would come out alive given the level of violence in the US Prison system. so with that in mind dont you think he should be tried in the UK
Theblacksheep Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 The authorities here have shown no interest in prosecution so he should be tried in the USA but again I would only give a minor sentence. had the crime been in the US, he wouldnt be coming over here...
somabc Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 so with that in mind dont you think he should be tried in the UK Yes why not, he was in the UK when he commited the crime, we have computer misuse laws that could be used. If he was tried here and found innocent (due to lack of evidence) then he could not be extradited for the same crime. The CPS looked at the case and decided securing a conviction here was unlikely, some would say they have been lent on by the US not to proceed.
beeswax Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 He's committed a crime so should be punished accordingly. I do have reservations about the amount of damage you can do bearing in mind I re-call (at the time) he was doing this over a dial-up connection. What's always confused me, is the US easily have the money and resources available to make their networks physically separate from the world wide web, so why don't they do it? I suspect in reality they'll put him in prison for a number of years, then offer him a deal to work with/for the agencies he allegedly attacked. Did he read confidential information on UFOs? I highly doubt it to be honest. Type in UFO on youtube and there are loads of stories/theories and most of them can be explained. Maybe he should of looked here first? IIRC, when Obama moved into the White House he found they still had Win95 on standalone machines.
Batman Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 IMHO, UK government should have told US government to shove it up their arses. We have laws here that cover that sort of thing... he should be tried properly. The US have too many secrets, I don't trust them at all. Don't trust our government either, but I think they'd be a lot more trustworthy if there was less of a compulsion for them to hang out with the US and do what they say/think.
Theblacksheep Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 We have laws here that cover that sort of thing... he should be tried properly. The US have too many secrets, I don't trust them at all. Don't trust our government either, but I think they'd be a lot more trustworthy if there was less of a compulsion for them to hang out with the US and do what they say/think. We have a one way extradition law now! Thats a special relationship! * * aka: the reacharound ** aka: The Anglo-American Establishment.
somabc Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) a very valid point that questions why they havent just give him a job lol Why would they give him a job if he is not a 'master hacker', by all accounts he broke in by using default accounts to unfirewalled systems that's the same as breaking into a house by walking in when the door is open. You won't get hired by the police to test locks afterwards! McKinnon hacking case relies on heresay - internal CPS document | 16 Jul 2009 | ComputerWeekly.commckinnon-full-judgment.pdf Edited August 11, 2009 by somabc
localzuk Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Firstly, the guy has Asperger's, which gives an explanation for his actions. It doesn't necessarily excuse them, but it explains them somewhat. Next, he committed the crime in the UK, he broke UK laws. The CMA. He should be tried in the UK as such. Finally, the supposed 'damage' done is nonsense. The only damage he did was to the image of the US govt and its departments. Them having to secure their networks is their own fault, not his. I say he should be tried in the UK, and his crimes be British ones, not US ones. Something else interesting to note is that a hacker in the USA was found guilty of a complex fraud recently and was given 55 months prison. The damage caused by the fraud runs up into the millions. His sentence was reduced because he has asperger's. If that case is used as an example, McKinnon should only face a short term anyway! But the likelihood is that the US govt want to say that in the current climate, hacking into govt networks is terrorism and want to make an example of him. Whatever happens, his prison sentence should be served over here.
CyberNerd Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 He's not a master hacker, all he did was rdp into the server and used 'administrator' with no password. these 'military' systems had no firewall and were not properly maintained (if they were not honeytraps). The argument that he caused so much damage was that the military then had to get in specialists to re-image and secure the computers. This Observer: McKinnon loses extradition appeal
CyberNerd Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Here's quite a good interview with McKinnon, he explains how blank passwords can be found with a simple perl script. not exactly rocket science. BBC NEWS | Programmes | Click | Hacker fears 'UFO cover-up'
R0M Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 This Observer: McKinnon loses extradition appeal This article doesn't make sense to me... I understand that you can rdp computers over the internet, but I don't get how he got through with a blank password? Even if the US government had grossly incompetent technicians witch as much as I'd like do believe... I doubt. By default you can not rdp into a computer that has a blank admin password. The "blank password" option A blank password (no password at all) on your account is more secure than a weak password such as "1234". Criminals can easily guess a simplistic password, but on computers using Windows XP, an account without a password cannot be accessed remotely by means such as a network or the Internet. Taken from here Also I thought that most computers even with an admin password didn't have rdp enabled.
CyberNerd Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 watch the interview - he didn't say it was rdp, a remote vnc type app he was using. He claims the problem was just that they used military personnel as techs rather than trained technicians
riskyburden Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 He could of hacked something worth while like dominos pizza, I'm right hungry. 1
localzuk Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Also, remember when he did this. This was 2001 and he was using the program 'RemotelyAnywhere'. At that time, the machines were most likely running either Windows NT4 or something of a similar age. It is unlikely that they had been upgraded to Windows 2000 yet in a military branch.
riskyburden Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 localzuk! do you google everything and follow it up with "Sir Sir I have something to say Sir!"
localzuk Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 localzuk! do you google everything and follow it up with "Sir Sir I have something to say Sir!" No, but I have a good memory for random irrelevant and useless facts ie. I can tell you that that phrase was used in an episode of QI as a buzzer sound... On a counter note, do you actually say anything useful? Your rep doesn't hold that you do... 1
Haptic Posted August 12, 2009 Author Posted August 12, 2009 Handbags At Dawn Guys http://www.sumoexperience.co.uk/images/Handbags%20at%20dawn.jpg 1
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