jamin100 Posted March 3, 2009 Posted March 3, 2009 The UK apple store has just come back online after the desktop refresh.. Not too impressed to be honest. Specs are ok on the new machines but prices suck! the lowest mac mini has seen a price jump from £391 to £499
baxter Posted March 3, 2009 Posted March 3, 2009 Extremely disappointed in the price increases for the iMac and Mac Mini.. Had planned to buy around 50 iMacs in the summer, but might have to consider a 'downgrade' to the Mac Mini and a cheap flat panel to keep within budget. Nice one Apple! Once again ignoring the education market.
Messa Posted March 3, 2009 Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) TBH, since when has any manufacturer's focus been on education - their in business to make money and get as many people as they can to buy them, IMO for the small amount of schools that can actually justify/afford Apple products it's not worth apple focusing on that market. The prices aint all that bad considering on the £1200 one there is a 24" screen and it comes with 4GB Ram as standard. Quad core iMac's would have been awesome but hey ho, im not all that dissapointed. Edited March 3, 2009 by Messa 1
mac_shinobi Posted March 3, 2009 Posted March 3, 2009 bit sucky on the DDR3 ram as I just got a Mac Pro august / sept time but oh well - will most likely keep this for a few good years so maybe the next time I get one it will be DDR4 or better RAM and faster graphics etc
mac_shinobi Posted March 3, 2009 Posted March 3, 2009 TBH, since when has any manufacturer's focus been on education - their in business to make money and get as many people as they can to buy them, IMO for the small amount of schools that can actually justify/afford Apple products it's not worth apple focusing on that market. The prices aint all that bad considering on the £1200 one there is a 24" screen and it comes with 4GB Ram as standard. Quad cores would have been awesome but hey ho, im not all that dissapointed. the 8 core mac pro has 6 gigs of ram instead of a measley 2 - ok its 6 1 gig sticks but hey 1
Rozzer Posted March 3, 2009 Posted March 3, 2009 Extremely disappointed in the price increases for the iMac and Mac Mini.. Had planned to buy around 50 iMacs in the summer, but might have to consider a 'downgrade' to the Mac Mini and a cheap flat panel to keep within budget. Nice one Apple! Once again ignoring the education market. Second that! I am not at all happy with the cost for the new iMacs. I have basically bought as many of the previous range as i can get my hands on.
AntonioRocco Posted March 3, 2009 Posted March 3, 2009 Hi You might all be guilty of jumping to an unwarranted conclusion? Don't forget the prices you're seeing on the web site do not necessarily reflect the pricing policy for educational institutions. Apple have always had and AFAIK still have an aggressive pricing policy when it comes to education. How can this be seen as ignoring education? To say otherwise is simply wrong and slightly naive. Most of you are in education and must have been involved at some level when purchasing IT? Do you not compare the unit price you pay against the unit price available commercially? Antonio Rocco (ACSA)
laputa01 Posted March 3, 2009 Posted March 3, 2009 I order about 100 Mac Minis a year through a company called Solutions-inc in Brighton. Give these guys and try and mention Alan Li from the Bridge Academy to see if they can sort you out with any deals. Also try Toucan if you haven't already. Good luck A
Ric_ Posted March 3, 2009 Posted March 3, 2009 Don't forget the prices you're seeing on the web site do not necessarily reflect the pricing policy for educational institutions. Apple have always had and AFAIK still have an aggressive pricing policy when it comes to education. How can this be seen as ignoring education? tbh, I haven't been all that impressed of late with Apple education pricing. 'Apple Solution Providers' can't seem to shift the price much from that on the online education store... and £775 is still a lot for an iMac (even if it is £100 less than retail).
DMcCoy Posted March 3, 2009 Posted March 3, 2009 Hi You might all be guilty of jumping to an unwarranted conclusion? Don't forget the prices you're seeing on the web site do not necessarily reflect the pricing policy for educational institutions. Apple have always had and AFAIK still have an aggressive pricing policy when it comes to education. How can this be seen as ignoring education? To say otherwise is simply wrong and slightly naive. Most of you are in education and must have been involved at some level when purchasing IT? Do you not compare the unit price you pay against the unit price available commercially? Antonio Rocco (ACSA) But they do ignore education. I wanted multiple copies of iWork and iLife. I had to order through the volume licensing and not the education store. When they turn up I simply have 40 boxes of each, not very useful for iWork license keys. There are virtually no upgrade license for any apple products. Applecare is horrendously expensive, but with my vast failure rate from the first set of machines we had, I'd never buy one without it now (even after apple carefully acknowledged it as a manufacturing fault, whilst the same time not admitting to anything). Apples method for network home directories is incredibly inefficient, constantly reading and writing to large numbers of files in the rediected library, hammering the file servers mercilessly. Printer sharing is still broken in 10.5.0 (.1,.2,.3,.4,.5,.6) having to login to cups to publish it manually. Support when even hinting of AD integration (such that it is) requires the very expensive support package. No concept of mandatory profiles, all users require the same crap in their library over and over again. Pitiful quota support. Most importantly there are simply no education people at apple to talk to, some for higher education perhaps, but nothing for secondaries and below. I'd go as far as saying that in my last 5 years working with macs that apple couldn't care less about networks and even less education ones!
FN-GM Posted March 3, 2009 Posted March 3, 2009 The best person i found to get Macs from was CPLTD. I purchased 2 mac laptops for myself from them. 1
AntonioRocco Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 @ Ric The statement still stands. Pricing for education is less than the commercial sector. Yes you're right it's still expensive but you knew that anyway. @ DMCoy I'm sorry to hear your experience has not been great. I agree with some of your comments. Generally Apple don't behave any differently to any other computer/OS manufacturer. I disagree slightly with your view of Apple's implementation of LDAP. I don't come to the same conclusion. Not when comparing it to the other offerings. Of course it's nowhere near perfect. Neither is Active Directory. At least Apple does try to make their platform work in heterogenous environments. I don't see Microsoft making quite the same effort? Printer Sharing? Why are you bothering? Let the DC handle it - its better at it anyway. Antonio Rocco (ACSA)
torledo Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 Hi You might all be guilty of jumping to an unwarranted conclusion? Don't forget the prices you're seeing on the web site do not necessarily reflect the pricing policy for educational institutions. Apple have always had and AFAIK still have an aggressive pricing policy when it comes to education. How can this be seen as ignoring education? To say otherwise is simply wrong and slightly naive. Most of you are in education and must have been involved at some level when purchasing IT? Do you not compare the unit price you pay against the unit price available commercially? Antonio Rocco (ACSA) ofcourse we understand the different between a unit price for educatoin via a reseller and the retail store price.....but unless a member has gotten up really early in the morning i doubt they can do an up do date check on whether unit prices via they're resellers have increased. Perhaps that's something you can do tomorrow. also with regards to 'aggressive discounting' depends what you mean by aggressive, what does the percentage difference look like between a quote you've received for an imac and the price for the same spec 'as list' on the uk apple store website ? And how does that stack up against other vendors who discount [aggressively or otherwise] for education. aggressive discounting is only a worthy statement in my view if it can be compared to another vendor. Or even if only as a comparison between discounts offered by apple to education in the US vs the UK. also, what discounts % wise have you had with bulk orders of say imacs, if any, on top of the education discount ? i must say i think it would be 'naive' to assume that prices won't be revised upward for education also for the new higher spec models.......but i'll reserve judgement until you can get your quote for the new kit.
GrumbleDook Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 Apple UK / Apple Europe do very little to support education now ... a shame as in the days of the Apple Distinguished School it was good fun. The only really thing is the Apple Teacher Institute and it looks like I won't ever get to one now (not being in a school or an ADE). Most of their work is now via Apple Solutions Experts who specialise in education (Solutions Inc are a cracking bunch but so are Toucan, AT Computers, KRCS ... in fact most of them are) and there is a constant struggle to get Apple to shift on prices. I have experienced (to the frustration of one ASE) that you get told to work with an ASE by Apple ... then Apple come back because you are doing a project they can use for PR and undercut the ASE, and you don't get the follow up support that the ASEs provide. Being able to call Solutions Inc and Toucan has been really handy at times. The only thing you get from the retail stores are the 'JAM' days ... and that is more a drive to get kids in the store to push iMacs, Mac Minis, low end Pro-tools (Final Cut Express, Logic Express, etc) and of course the iPod / iPhone. On the licence side of things, iLife and iWorks can be done as site licences and you get volume media ... but that only works when you have goodly amounts of machines IIRC. Disappointed in the price increase, but it was expected to be honest with the naff pound and other increases of costs. It is just annoying that once a price is set it doesn't change the way that other manufacturers / suppliers do. Love the kit, love the software (apart from the odd strange thing like CUPS *not* being friendly at time or OD-AD breaking between minor upgrades) but still think the approach to education over this side of the water is not right.
Ric_ Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 On the licence side of things, iLife and iWorks can be done as site licences and you get volume media ... but that only works when you have goodly amounts of machines IIRC. Logic can also be bought as a site license and the site licenses are VERY good value for money. You only need about 20 macs too to start getting good value for money IIRC.
Rozzer Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 I feel Apple are helping education more than ever. The RTC program in and around the UK has been very successful. Offering free training to schools is more than Microsoft has offered. If you feel you are not getting support contact your local RTC or contact your local reseller. Your ASE should be offering you as much support as they can handle. In my local authority i have teamed up with apple and our local reseller to provide technical training for free to the LA to support Apples in both Secondary and Primary. For more info on the Apple Regional Training Centre program visit here: Apple (United Kingdom) - Apple Regional Training Centres Ross
matt40k Posted March 4, 2009 Posted March 4, 2009 Me thinks any Mac users should get a PC then install Mac OS. What rip off... £1k for a C2D, 2GB, 20" TFT, OS etc. I think I could get Double the spec for that price. Only real difference is the ruddy DDR(2) going to DDR3 and the better graphics card. Of course this isn't forgetting that all important "Green" factor. (So your paying for those tin cans you throw away all those years ago)
rolfea Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 IMO Mac's are great Expensive But great. As soon as you plug a network cable into the back of it. It all falls apart. The Mac network, even with just using WGM and OD, no AD integration or anything require so much effort to maintain. We even had a professional to set us up, yet some of the Macs insist on updating from the internet not the server. Some Macs still can't run applications because they're not allowed, even though its been added into WGM 7 odd times. Some Macs crash because a user logs out. Some Macs can't visit a web page without Safari's Keychain flashing in your face several times! WHATS THE DEAL WITH THAT! If anyone can help stop any of these errors happening, feel free to PM and I'll try give a bit more patience to the Mac network.
jamin100 Posted March 5, 2009 Author Posted March 5, 2009 I'd love to have some mac here at school but the price is a major factor + our users wouldnt be able to understand the whole dual boot thing with xp and os x.
Haptic Posted March 5, 2009 Posted March 5, 2009 http://www.edugeek.net/forums/our-advertisers/31868-new-imacs-now-stock-computer-products-ltd.html
Rozzer Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 IMO Mac's are great Expensive But great. As soon as you plug a network cable into the back of it. It all falls apart. The Mac network, even with just using WGM and OD, no AD integration or anything require so much effort to maintain. We even had a professional to set us up, yet some of the Macs insist on updating from the internet not the server. Some Macs still can't run applications because they're not allowed, even though its been added into WGM 7 odd times. Some Macs crash because a user logs out. Some Macs can't visit a web page without Safari's Keychain flashing in your face several times! WHATS THE DEAL WITH THAT! If anyone can help stop any of these errors happening, feel free to PM and I'll try give a bit more patience to the Mac network. Your basing your opinions on mac networks down to the safari keychain asking for details? Plus a few issues which are easily fixed with other methods. Applications an be controlled via legacy if it bothers you that much. Shall we nip pick into how perfect microsoft networks are?
mac_shinobi Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 Your basing your opinions on mac networks down to the safari keychain asking for details? Plus a few issues which are easily fixed with other methods. Applications an be controlled via legacy if it bothers you that much. Shall we nip pick into how perfect microsoft networks are? At the end he did request help and never said ms were any better, maybe you can show him the way on the dark side and how to use the force 1
rolfea Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 OH with MS we have DNS issues, log on scripts going fubar, exchange profile faults and all the rest. All networks have they're issues. And I didn't say "MAC NETWORKS SUCK!!" I did word "It all falls apart." incorrectly, I should have said "Ours all fell apart" I'm sure there are fully working Mac networks with no issues at all. But, from my experience, the Mac network is very fiddly to maintain. For example one fix breaking something else and then that fix causing something else to go wrong! And, like Mac_Shinobi said, I have asked for alot of help and alot of the help has been very useful and I thank you all for it. But we still have our problems which, IMO are almost pointless, such as the Safari Keychain not actually in use yet still persists to cause annoyance. I am certainly not judging the whole Mac network on a Safari Keychain, like you say, I am however judging it on the method of giving permissions and complexity of it all to someone who has been using the Macs for under a year, being thrown in the deep end with limited training and only having knowledge of Windows Servers and permissions. I hope this gives you a better understanding of the position I'm in, and calms you down that little bit more. (your post sounded angry)
WStore_Dan Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 Not too impressed to be honest. Specs are ok on the new machines but prices suck! the lowest mac mini has seen a price jump from £391 to £499 That pricing seems a tad high to me! We have the following available in our Mac Mini range.... Apple Mac mini 1 x Intel Core 2 Duo 1.83GHz Dual Core 1GB DDR II SDRAM 80GB Serial ATA-150 HD CD-RW / DVD Gigabit Ethernet - 802.11b/g Bluetooth 2.0 EDR MacOS X 10.5 Price: £332.48+VAT Apple Mac mini 1 x Intel Core 2 Duo 2GHz Dual Core 1GB DDR II SDRAM (2 x 512MB) 120GB Serial ATA-150 DVD±RW (±R DL) Gigabit Ethernet - 802.11b/g Bluetooth 2.0 EDR MacOS X 10.5 Price: £415.09+VAT Both items are in stock and available for next day delivery I've also been told that if you are after a large quantity, we can usually obtain a further educational discount for you Any questions then please let me know Regards
TechMonkey Posted March 6, 2009 Posted March 6, 2009 That pricing seems a tad high to me! We have the following available in our Mac Mini range.... Is that the old Mac Mini or the newly released one? If it is the new one you have a sale!
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