RabbieBurns Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Uk And French Nuclear Submarines In Midocean Collision (from The Herald ) How the H3ll could something like that happen in this day and age
PeterW Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Apparently the state of the navy these days isent very good and the training is also very poor. Its very shocking to see things like this happening.
hermand Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Not really - ignoring the idea that the ocean is huge (because while it is, operational requirements will be similar for England and France) but modern subs are designed not to be detected. Hence, we have 2 subs in a similar location both trying their hardest to be invisible to anyone else. To use active sonar would completely defeat the object of the nuclear deterrent, so meh. Unfortunate, and could've been bad, but not suprising and not shocking. The only real way to avoid it is to share info with allies (like we do with the US), but again, that starts to defeat the object of having the nuclear warheads stationed on subs. That's why we use aircraft to find subs, and not other subs.
FN-GM Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) Not really - ignoring the idea that the ocean is huge (because while it is, operational requirements will be similar for England and France) but modern subs are designed not to be detected. Hence, we have 2 subs in a similar location both trying their hardest to be invisible to anyone else. To use active sonar would completely defeat the object of the nuclear deterrent, so meh. Unfortunate, and could've been bad, but not suprising and not shocking. The only real way to avoid it is to share info with allies (like we do with the US), but again, that starts to defeat the object of having the nuclear warheads stationed on subs. That's why we use aircraft to find subs, and not other subs. Very good point. Edited February 16, 2009 by FN-GM
Domino Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 The registers article actually explains how it happened Brit, French nuke subs collide - fail to 'see' each other • The Register and to be fair there's not really any way to avoid this kind of thing with a stealth sub....
hermand Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 The registers article actually explains how it happened Brit, French nuke subs collide - fail to 'see' each other • The Register and to be fair there's not really any way to avoid this kind of thing with a stealth sub.... Good article compared to the hype of the Sun and the BBC.
Andrew_C Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Flippant reply time; The only real way to avoid it is to share info with allies That's why we use aircraft to find subs, and not other subs. We are talking about the French here, not our allies. Somewhat more seriously, I commend the book [ame=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lions-Donkeys-Dinosaurs-Blundering-Military/dp/0099484420/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234810073&sr=8-1]Lions, Donkeys and Dinosaurs[/ame] to anyone who's blood pressure will stand it. The author discusses why we insist on spending £billions keeping a fleet of destroyers working in the North Atlantic, patrolling the Iceland gap. Historically this was to keep the Red Banner Fleet from sneaking out; this fleet no longer exists as a military force, it is rusting to bits. His contention, is that the Navy protects these ships as they form part of the ladder to senior positions in the Navy. The Senior Service being self-serving? Never! (Oh, and don't think the other two branches get off scot-free; bombers- what a wonderful way to win hearts and minds) Subs are used to hunt other subs, we have at least some "Hunter-Killers", as do other navies. The film Hunt for Red October wasn't entirely made up.
RabbieBurns Posted February 16, 2009 Author Posted February 16, 2009 It galls me that the billions they just spent on some new aircraft carrier was the same amount it wuold have cost to run fibre to every single home in britain.
localzuk Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 It galls me that the billions they just spent on some new aircraft carrier was the same amount it wuold have cost to run fibre to every single home in britain. Or the billions pumped into banks being used to give people bonuses...
hermand Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Subs are used to hunt other subs, we have at least some "Hunter-Killers", as do other navies. The film Hunt for Red October wasn't entirely made up. We do indeed, but they have a completely different role and operational model to the nuclear platforms being discussed here. My statement was very, to be fair, but we do only have about 10 attack type subs. They're pretty good at doing it but we have a lot of other kit, too. Including ships and helicopters, of course.
Domino Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 The film Hunt for Red October wasn't entirely made up. no...but it did have a scottish russian submarine commander
somabc Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) I don't believe it was an accident that they were in the same area. The ocean is literally huge and there is more likelihood of me winning the lottery every week for the next 1000 years than two random craft hitting each other. That location has some strategic importance for nuclear subs (perhaps for the potential to fire missiles at several continents) or either Britain or France was trying to track the other sub and they got too close. Edited February 16, 2009 by somabc
mac_shinobi Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 That's why we use aircraft to find subs, and not other subs. apparently not in this instance / case as this time around the other sub seemed to do a good job hehe
DrPerceptron Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 The film Hunt for Red October wasn't entirely made up. Isn't that the film where the crew just sort of got bored and made it easy for them to be found or something stupid?
FN-GM Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 I don't believe it was an accident that they were in the same area. The ocean is literally huge and there is more likelihood of me winning the lottery every week for the next 1000 years than two random craft hitting each other. That location has some strategic importance for nuclear subs (perhaps for the potential to fire missiles at several continents) or either Britain or France was trying to track the other sub and they got too close. Exactly, apparently the Atlantic is 41.1 million square miles, and they hit each other..... I can't help but laugh.
somabc Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Royal Navy completes Windows for Submarines I always said you should never install windows on submarines
FN-GM Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Royal Navy completes Windows for Submarines I always said you should never install windows on submarines oh dear..... Can you imagine if it blue screened, let of a torpedo and started world war 3. I always said bill gates would start a war.
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