Makes you proud to be British.......

[mattx]

BBC NEWS | Magazine | 'Working, what's the point?'

[gwendes]

How sad. They're lazy but I'm guessing there isn't much to be positive about in that situation.

[alexknight]

What a total waste of space some people are.

 

My take home pay from the council is very near £1000 a month, take all my cost of living expanses from that and I would have less in my pocket than they have.

 

When will the government wake up???

 

Alex

[DrPerceptron]

What were they expecting with no qualifications?

[mattx]

How sad. They're lazy but I'm guessing there isn't much to be positive about in that situation.

 

They seem positive about watching Telly or getting on the Telly.....

They should do some voluntary work or find out about gaining some extra skills than just thinking the country owes them a living......

[Guest Guest]

Before people cast judgement i think they should take into consideration that the people in question live in an area of massive unemployment, the highest in the UK i believe. And that the govt. make it so damn hard to get any money out of the social that once you are on it it would be silly to give it up for any old temp work.

 

I am not however condoning people who dont work. But at the same time if i had stayed on the dole for 3 years i would have been no worse off than what i was before i got my current job; doing a week here, getting layed off, spending 6 weeks with no money, getting another temp job for a month, getting layed off... If i had lived on my own i woudl have found it very hard to pay the bills, nevermind feed myself.

 

So to say "you should just get any job rather than stay on the dole" is a very simplist view, and in alot of cases you will end up worse off financially .

Edited January 14, 2009 by Guest

[mattx]

They seem to have enough money for a mobile phone, jewelry, fags & spending in Cafe's. But they can't afford to go on the bus to look for work......

Hmmmmmm.

[Guest Guest]

They should do some voluntary work or find out about gaining some extra skills than just thinking the country owes them a living......

 

I agree but it isnt as simple as that. IME trying to gain extra skills while on the dole i nigh on impossible. When i told the dole i would be doing an NVQ all they had to say was "why? Get a job you lazy person...". They didnt seem to realise that by retraining it would ultimately be in both our interests

 

Im not sure but i dare say that you cant do voluntry work while on job seekers, as you arnt "seeking a job".

[apoth0r]

I spend £80 a month on my bus fare, thats 8% of my wages, but you have to do it? If you don't pay to get to work you don't work do you? It's common sense.

 

I've been out of work many times, i have never signed on out of principle. Maybe I should have and played the "haven't found a job I like yet" card. It's work, it's not gonna be that fun!?!?

[gwendes]

What were they expecting with no qualifications?

 

I think you'd need to have been to their school, lived in their area etc to understand if that was as simple as it sounds.

 

I've lived in a thoroughly rough area and done the agency work in factories that they have - it's soul destroying. Being sent home because there was a mistake at the agency, working double -shifts or night then afternoon for £100-150 a week...

 

I agree there should be something for them to do - something to make themselves employable but that's a matter for government. Some people make their own success but living in a situation like that everyday can really make you feel like giving up.

[Gatt]

They seem to have enough money for a mobile phone, jewelry, fags & spending in Cafe's. But they can't afford to go on the bus to look for work......

Hmmmmmm.

 

Makes you wonder..

 

if they stopped the ciggies that would save them - what £5 to £6 a day each!

 

Will let them have the Mobiles ( £10 a month on O2 gets you 300 free txts and £10 worth of calls)

 

the Jewellery and Cafe visits would prob save them a fair bit too..

 

Both get about £95 a fortnight - they'll no doubt be on just about every benefit under the sun (Low Income, Council Tax, Most bills paid for, etc etc ) so that money is going where exactly?

[torledo]

Sparky is absolutely spot on about high unemployment in areas which have lost major industries and the lack if financial incentives and prospects in full-time work.

 

There is a serious point to be made, which is that it's basically a numbers game. IF your single and on unemployment benefit there are all sorts of oncosts that are available for nowt (even more so if you have

kids).....housing benefit (now called LHA), council tax benefit and several others that i don't have the inclinaiton to mention right here.

 

Your only going to walk into low paid work without qualifications and work experience, so why bust a gut and risk losing entitlement to those means tested benefits.....there are websites that tell you how much you get in handouts through employment.....so if the work your applying for doesn't 'add up' in terms of paying the required working tax credits (WTC) or means you don't get full concession on things like council tax what is the point in getting up at 8:00 in the morning to do a dead end job ?

 

And before you all hurry to answer, i know self-esteem and pride are good enough reasons, but the point is nulabour don't make it easy for people to progress in employment......there's a dead-end built into the system. If you start on a job and after a couple of year you become stuck in that band where you earn too much and at the same time too little you really are basically being screwed over. Tax credits was supposed to encourage peope into shelf stacking and dead end jobs but it's bascially been a farce riddled with fraud from the start.

 

This pair are nothing, 1 year and 3 year on JSA ?? Pfft. The real problem cases are those who've spent years on incapacity with 'bad backs', single parents who've never had to look for a job even when their offspring reach secondary school age (we're talking over a decade on incapacity and income support for a lot of cases), and these cases and the reliance on the welfare state is only going to get worse as jobs go left, right and centre in the 'real' economy.

[webman]

If he was so desperate to work, he wouldn't avoid the "factory jobs" that he doesn't seem to like. It can't be that bad - like mattx said - they have plenty of jewellery, phones, TV, computer, tobacco...

 

It's not the country's fault or the government's fault they have no qualifications - if it was, everyone at their school would have left with no qualifications.

[Guest Guest]

I think you'd need to have been to their school, lived in their area etc to understand if that was as simple as it sounds.

 

I've lived in a thoroughly rough area and done the agency work in factories that they have - it's soul destroying. Being sent home because there was a mistake at the agency, working double -shifts or night then afternoon for £100-150 a week...

 

I agree there should be something for them to do - something to make themselves employable but that's a matter for government. Some people make their own success but living in a situation like that everyday can really make you feel like giving up.

 

Well said.

 

They seem to have enough money for a mobile phone, jewelry, fags & spending in Cafe's. But they can't afford to go on the bus to look for work......

Hmmmmmm.

 

A week tripper is around 30% of their weekly "wage" so you can understand if they dont want to go to town, spending what little money they have, only to be knocked back.

 

 

I think people forget that once you are out of work it is far harder to get a job. Plus if you live on your own, you're on the dole, your bills are getting payed, you have food in the cupboards... You then go and get a job, it lasts a week and then you get layed off, you then have 6weeks+ before the dole gives you any money. What do you do for those 6weeks? Not eat? Not pay teh council tax, your rates, your rent... And how exactly do you go looking for work when you have no money to pay the bus driver?

 

 

Sorry rant over, but i hate the very simplist view some people have based on the fact they have been brought up in a good area with plenty of opportunities...

Edited January 14, 2009 by Guest

[Butuz]

Personally I think it's the system to blame rather than the people.

 

Although I have never been unemployed myself, I have seen first hand how actually you can be better off not having a job at all! As long as this is the case, and the system is so floored - why would people want to try and get jobs that will actually make them considerably worse off???

 

NO idea how to fix it mind..

 

Butuz

[Guest Guest]

If he was so desperate to work, he wouldn't avoid the "factory jobs" that he doesn't seem to like. It can't be that bad - like mattx said - they have plenty of jewellery, phones, TV, computer, tobacco...

 

It's not the country's fault or the government's fault they have no qualifications - if it was, everyone at their school would have left with no qualifications.

 

He didnt say he doesnt want a factory job because he doesnt like it. He said he doesnt want one because you end up turning up for work only to be told "go home, you're not needed". Which as i said ends up with you having no job and no money coming in.

[mattx]

Well said.

 

 

 

A week tripper is around 30% of their weekly "wage" so you can understand if they dont want to go to town, spending what little money they have, only to be knocked back.

 

 

I think people forget that once you are out of work it is far harder to get a job. Plus if you live on your own, you're on the dole, your bills are getting payed, you have food in the cupboards... You then go and get a job, it lasts a week and then you get layed off, you then have 6weeks+ before the dole gives you any money. What do you do for those 6weeks? Not eat? Not pay teh council tax, your rates, your rent... And how exactly do you go looking for work when you have no money to pay the bus driver?

 

 

Sorry rant over, but i hate the very simplist view some people have based on the fact they have been brought up in a good area with plenty of oppertunities...

 

Sorry, don't agree. I put it simply - the two people in this sad tale are just bone idle and lazy. There are jobs there, they just think they are better than those jobs. The girl wants to work with children but has no qualifications and money to get them. So, do the factory work, go to night school - [ as you are now being paid ] and get your qualifications. Stop spending money on fancy things like ciggies, phones and going out. Spend it on some night classes, sort your life out and dump your lazy boyfriend who would not know a hard days work if it hit him in the face. As all he wants to do [ as stated in the interview ] is get on the Telly and be in Eastenders.

My rant over.

[torledo]

He didnt say he doesnt want a factory job because he doesnt like it. He said he doesnt want one because you end up turning up for work only to be told "go home, you're not needed". Which as i said ends up with you having no job and no money coming in.

 

exactly.

[apoth0r]

I'm sorry but if you want to find a job you will.

There are plenty of jobs out there to take on, I've done all kinds of rubbish jobs that I hated, but the fact you are paid is enough for me. Just because you have a job doesn't mean you can't be looking for something better or a college course in the evenings. I'm sorry but being on benefits for 3 years is just lazy. There IS work, check your local agencies and job centres and you will see there is work for unqualified people but again the excuses of "I don't like it" is not good enough. You don't like the job but you are willing to sit on your arse moaning about not having a job. What a load of rubbish.

 

These people need a kick up the arse for them to realise life isn't all roses and not everything is given to them for free. (I know there are cases which are valid, but these two are obviously cheating the system because they have doused themselves in excuses)

 

It's not what you say it's what you do.

[torledo]

 

It's not the country's fault or the government's fault they have no qualifications - if it was, everyone at their school would have left with no qualifications.

 

Really ? SO the govt. can take plaudits about any successes [however minor]

in terms of number of school leavers receiving A-G's or how many go on to do media degree at some ex-poly......but it's not the govts. fault that people leave without qualifications ??

 

Do you work for the labour party ?

 

Where's all the money gone over the last 10 years.....i thought it was entirely about not allowing people to fail.

[Guest Guest]

Sorry, don't agree. I put it simply - the two people in this sad tale are just bone idle and lazy. There are jobs there, they just think they are better than those jobs. The girl wants to work with children but has no qualifications and money to get them. So, do the factory work, go to night school - [ as you are now being paid ] and get your qualifications. Stop spending money on fancy things like ciggies, phones and going out. Spend it on some night classes, sort your life out and dump your lazy boyfriend who would not know a hard days work if it hit him in the face. As all he wants to do [ as stated in the interview ] is get on the Telly and be in Eastenders.

My rant over.

 

You obviously havnt ever been in that situation then. Very very few factory jobs are regular day shifts. So doing a night class is out of the question. I get your point but your lack of experiance shows through with simplistic comments like that. Her only option is retail work, but would you employ her looking how she does?

 

 

If i were to lose my job i know i would find it hard to get another job and it wouldnt be for lack of trying. If i were a betting man i would say ive done worse jobs than 99% of people on this board. A jobs a job, it earns you money. But on the flip side i do know people who "wouldnt dare do that job" so im not saying everyone is teh same as me...

 

Id be in a far better situation then they are as i have a car (another massive point people forget because they take it for granted. Remember these pit villages are in the middle of nowhere so you will be very limited to where you can actually work).

 

 

//Ive just looked at your profile. Can i ask, have you always lived in and around london, because london and the north of england are very very different places.

Edited January 14, 2009 by Guest

[gwendes]

Sorry, don't agree. I put it simply - the two people in this sad tale are just bone idle and lazy.

 

 

Perhaps, but that isn't the root of the problem. Working in a low end, unskilled job is not the solution.

 

I'm sorry but if you want to find a job you will.

 

You might. I might.

 

I think you'd actually need to live where these people do to make a decision about that.

 

Sorry rant over, but i hate the very simplist view some people have based on the fact they have been brought up in a good area with plenty of opportunities...

 

Couldn't agree more. That's not to say that there aren't (and I'm sure this thread will attract plenty of anacedotal evidence) people that pull themselves out of poverty with hard work but you can't take such a simplistic view of such a complicated problem.

 

Having lived in a deprived area and worked in very poorly paid and low skilled jobs I know that it isn't something that you just 'pull your socks up' and fix. There's a reason that the term 'benefit trap' is used - people become trapped by a system that is geared towards unemployment.

 

For the record I have never claimed any benefits or received financial support (other than my own credit card!) It is possible but I consider myself reasonably intelligent.

 

I feel sorry for some of these people. Some.

[apoth0r]

I think you underestimate the amount of people who have found themselves in that position. But look where we are now?

A little effort and a little determination to actually wanting a job and doing something about it.

Here I am working steady for the past 3 years, before....... lazy, couldn't be bothered. I repeat I never signed on, but have I paid for those couple of years not bothering, yes i've just about paid of the debts.

Oh wait... is it because I got two D's at A-Level that i'm suddenly more employable or is it more the fact I have a clue about the world isn't an easy place and yes you do have to get off your arse.

 

I can't get a job or lose my freebies!??!!?

What a joke, pay for things like everyone else and if you want the 'high-life' deal with the debt that brings and learn from it.

[gwendes]

You obviously havnt ever been in that situation then.

 

Couldn't agree more and I've been accused of being a raving Tory on occasion!

[mattx]

The longest I was out of work for was 2 weeks and I was pulling my hair out with Boredom.

I was soooooo desperate to get back to work I took a job in a kitchen. I then went to college - [ 2 buses and two trains ] for 2 years and got some qualifications - [ which are worthless now as they have nothing to do with my job ] - I also during this time went to night school and got my 'O' level Maths.

This was during MASSIVE unemployment. My Dad pushed me and if it was not for him I don't think I would have got as far as I have today. I have lost count how many jobs I have had since leaving school, but I ALWAYS had something no matter how s*** it was knowing one day I would get something better. And my Dad always made sure I had a job and made me understand how important a job was in life.

I feel sorry for the people in the story as they clearly want a better life but don't yet understand they actually have to work for it.

They are just Lazy, still if they want to p*** away their benifit money on Ciggies, mobile phones, jewellery & going out to cafe's then it's no wonder they can't find a job.

Edited March 20, 2010 by witch