CLEO.. WHY!?!

[dgsmith]

Without any prior warning or notice (to us at least), it seems CLEO have not only just blocked logmein for our own machines in work (own use), but also prevented RM from gaining remote sessions to our servers via logmein123.com (which blocks access to their servers to prevent connecting to the gateway).

 

The answer? Oh yes.. Sun Global Desktop (which RM don't want anything to do with).

 

So we have a CC4 network (lets not go there).. full of problems, and no means for RM to get access. Really going to put us in a terrible pickle. Surely others from Lancs/Cumbria have noticed this (those who use logmein at least, or more specifically, CC4)...

We can appreciate it may have particular security issues that are of concern, but this has really put us in the siht..

[Dos_Box]

Whilst this is an FFS I shall move it to the CLEO forum. Have you even asked the nice people there for a solution, or is your feed from us (if you are in Liverpool you are not actually a apart of CLEO) blocked by a more local LEA setup?

[jcollings]

Logmein still works for me (Cumbrian school)

[dgsmith]

Although I live in Liverpool, i work in Lancashire thus the school has a CLEO connection. We have had verbal contact with them and they have confirmed logmein is blocked for security reasons (although we have an unfiltered CLEO connection on our admin network, and logmein still works on that, but RM is on the curriculum network).

 

Apologies if the FFS forum was inappropriate, however, that is quite how we feel right now when the block severely restricts our ability to work with RM on the issues.

 

jcollins: Do you have an unfiltered CLEO connection (as on our unfiltered, logmein still works)?

[jcollings]

Although I live in Liverpool, i work in Lancashire thus the school has a CLEO connection. We have had verbal contact with them and they have confirmed logmein is blocked for security reasons (although we have an unfiltered CLEO connection on our admin network, and logmein still works on that, but RM is on the curriculum network).

 

Apologies if the FFS forum was inappropriate, however, that is quite how we feel right now when the block severely restricts our ability to work with RM on the issues.

 

jcollins: Do you have an unfiltered CLEO connection (as on our unfiltered, logmein still works)?

 

Strange - we have 1 flat network (no admin/curric split) and it is filtered by CLEO but it seems to still work for us.

[Geoff]

logmein blocked here (Lancs).

[john]

It sort of works for me, I haven't tried using it to get to my PC as I have no need tbh, but I can get to my home PC which I need at times, always nipping to it via the web for resources and useful bits and bats which I need for work, so its very useful, and thats via the kids internet rather than the admin side of it. I will say it takes a few attempts to get the website to let me in rathe that chucking me out and seems to blip every so often but its not banned end of etc...

 

TBH, if they banned it totally I would be rather pee'd off tbh, maybe on the kids side of things but not the admin side as you have said RM use it which is good and the likes of other 3rd party support firms use applications like that.

 

Sorry should say im Cumbria CLEO

[dgsmith]

How daft that cumbria still has it and lancs doesn't! Surely if it's a security risk it would be blocked across every area which has a CLEO connection?

 

It would appear RM aren't taking the alternative either, which could be detrimental.

[dezt]

logmein has been blocked by the westfield centre, i phoned them today about it as we need someone to cionfigure our information screens when we send them updated information. I was told it was blocked beacause they could put anything they wanted onto our network through the computer.

 

They did offer SUN global desktop, but the company need ftp access to the remote machine at our end. Does anyone know if this is possible?

[paul]

I can confirm its blocked by Lancs not CLEO, you will need to speak to Martin Quinn at Westfield.

[Dos_Box]

FTP into your school via CLEO!! How big a hole do they want to put into CLEOland?

P.S. It is different between Cumbria and Lancashire because it was very hard to get links into Cumbria schools due to lakes, mountains, general remoteness etc and Cumbria took connections where ever they could find them originally.

[Dos_Box]

BTW, If they were to use SGD they could logon to a dedicated 'admin' box setup by you and then FTP out to get the files rather than FTPing in.

[dgsmith]

Regardless of whether it's cleo or westfield that has blocked the connection (and my apologies to CLEO if they have had nothing to do with it), it still helps us little with regards to RM remoting in, when they want little to do with SGD.

[georgebush]

Just look at it as any consumer would, your paying money and they're not meeting your requirments, it might be worth at least looking into pricing on other options.

 

A word to the visiting ICT coordinator by your head of IT could also bear fruit.

 

Worst case you could look at getting a DSL line put in, its not that cost prohibitive and you could also use it as a backup gateway for key machines if ever CLEO was down for maintenance etc.

 

SGD isnt actually that bad, all its missing is the normal minimise tab from RDP. It just the waiting for it to be set-up, 2 weeks in one case and another school I need it for its now been 2 months, submitted for forms twice and there's still "no record" of my request. They could be a bit a bit faster on that side but overall its a workable system.

[Geoff]

Worst case you could look at getting a DSL line put in, its not that cost prohibitive and you could also use it as a backup gateway for key machines if ever CLEO was down for maintenance etc.

 

As part of the T&Cs of having a CLEO connection, you are prohibited from having any other external connections.

[renegade]

CLEO are clearly trying to make us more and mre reliant on them. We spoke to them and the response was that it was their responsibility to prevent any malicious actions on our network!! Is it F*@#.

 

What they are trying to do is edge in to make us reliant on them so they will be at the front of the queue when Schools for the Future comes to our area, so they can take our jobs.

 

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if a anybody logs on to our network remotely or locally, the security is down to us. My school is locked down. We can track any users movements, stuff printed, deleted, applications used EVERYTHING!! It doesn't matter to us if they use remote logon, they cannot do anymore than if they were in the building.

 

They blag your head with all this 'we log it all' bollox but that is all it is bollox to try to take your job off ya so they can take over in the future. 99% of our sites that are blocked are done so prior to CLEO kicking in, of the remaining 1% we need 99% to be allowed!!! OK they are not desireable, ifilms.com and the like BUT they are recomended sites by exam boards so what can you do?? Stuff like this is not what you want but media studies courses need them. If you force the kids to find other sites then you end up with them finding sites with proper bad content that cannot be contained!! Same thing with Yahoo answers and the like. If you block recommended sites then you pick up dodgy sites!!

[dgsmith]

Westfield did confirm it was CLEO who have taken this step, and we were informed we weren't the only ones to query this (and take a dislike towards this move).

 

Getting over the frustration of last week - we have a SGD account set up now and RM have reluctantly agreed to using this, as our problems on site were severe enough for them to consider this alternate means of access.

 

As renegade said, the site security ultimately is the responsibility of the person(s) whom are employed to overlook the network, thus, any attacks which have the potential to be compromising should be effectively be prevented by inhouse security. Obviously, the nature of logmein means it can be detrimental to a site where security isn't as it should be, but surely something could have been done to still allow the ports used by logmein123.com, without blocking the whole lot.. but that is getting somewhat off the subject.

 

Regardless, we have reached a reluctant compromise (although still undesirable) to accommodate RM and ourselves.

[Dos_Box]

CLEO are clearly trying to make us more and mre reliant on them. We spoke to them and the response was that it was their responsibility to prevent any malicious actions on our network!! Is it F*@#.

 

What they are trying to do is edge in to make us reliant on them so they will be at the front of the queue when Schools for the Future comes to our area, so they can take our jobs.

 

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if a anybody logs on to our network remotely or locally, the security is down to us. My school is locked down. We can track any users movements, stuff printed, deleted, applications used EVERYTHING!! It doesn't matter to us if they use remote logon, they cannot do anymore than if they were in the building.

 

They blag your head with all this 'we log it all' bollox but that is all it is bollox to try to take your job off ya so they can take over in the future. 99% of our sites that are blocked are done so prior to CLEO kicking in, of the remaining 1% we need 99% to be allowed!!! OK they are not desireable, ifilms.com and the like BUT they are recomended sites by exam boards so what can you do?? Stuff like this is not what you want but media studies courses need them. If you force the kids to find other sites then you end up with them finding sites with proper bad content that cannot be contained!! Same thing with Yahoo answers and the like. If you block recommended sites then you pick up dodgy sites!!

 

It is CLEOs responsibility to ensure the security of your network, the vast majority of virus outbreaks in CLEO (of which thankfully these have been few) have all originated form WITHIN schools and spread outwards from there. It is the bigger picture we look at. The filtering is a legal requirement for anyone supplying a feed to schools, and besides, for the price you pay for an uncontested 100MB link try shopping around for an internet services certified for school connectivity for the price that CLEO charges.

As an RBC CLEO has to take ALL schools into consideration, and your comment of:

 

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if a anybody logs on to our network remotely or locally, the security is down to us.

 

Totally fails to take into account the fact that once in the school, with the right tools they could potentially do whatever they wish to your network. The SGD system we have give free to all schools is a widely recognised secure system which will provide all the facilities you need. Believe me, we had a very, very long look at all the other methods and systems on offer and a majority of them offered security problems that I won't go into here.

It seems to me that you are having quite an undirected rant about perceived problems. CLEO provides your net connection and nothing else. There are always T&Cs to observe when you sign up for any connection at this level.

 

What they are trying to do is edge in to make us reliant on them so they will be at the front of the queue when Schools for the Future comes to our area, so they can take our jobs.

 

Erm, no. CLEO is not a corporate entity in any way shape or form, and so cannot even look at BSF projects beyond the JANet connectivity level.

I suggest you have a quick look at this Becta site dealing with just what standards we have to have in place to prove a feed to schools, and keep in mind that the type of connection schools have to have is very different to the type that you have in the home.

 

Becta Local authorities - Procurement - Internet services - Internet Services Accreditation requirements

[Ric_]

Just look at it as any consumer would, your paying money and they're not meeting your requirments, it might be worth at least looking into pricing on other options.

 

I think it might be slightly unfair to say that CLEO is at fault here... CLEO gave the OP an alternative solution and it was in fact RM who were being inflexible.

 

We all get frustrated sometimes with the restrictions imposed but we must remember that not all schools within CLEO are as secure as ours and CLEO have a duty of care to ensure that the lowest common denominator is catered for.

[dezt]

Well, the third party company complained a lot, but westfield stayed put, and i don't blame them, if they want to put files on the computer they won't let us ftp in and grab them.... no.... they have to send a "technical specialist" out to copy the file from cd to the computer and run it that way.

 

Annoying gits

[GrumbleDook]

CLEO is not the only RBC that operates like this ... it is more the rule than the exception and as new contracts are completed then things are tightened up. It is fine to say that we can look after security, but when you consider the number of schools with decent onsite support that is funded properly to give people the right tools to lock things down, against those that do not have support, do not have adequate tools due to lack of skills or funding ... and not forgetting the small minority that think they know best and don't even bother to look at things like the standadr network build / configuration ... again, this is something common across all RBCs.

 

You have to plan for stupidity in spite of the detrimental effect on those who are quite capable. It only takes one numpty ....