Working at Height

[petben]

Hello, up to now we have been working off tall Zarges step ladders to do jobs like replace projectors in high ceilinged rooms (halls, studios etc) or put up lights on the rig in performance spaces. Probably not the safest practice, so what do others do to work at height - up to about 6m for our main hall. Do you use ladders, towers, scissor lifts? How do you cope with the time it takes to setup, maintain, be trained for, compared to just grabbing a ladder?

 

Thanks

[synaesthesia]

Depends on scenario - have full use of proper electricians ladders for general access, small lightly ali steps for things just out of reach, ceiling tiles etc and have full (supervised and trained) use of a school owned small scaff tower for hall AV. We get the usual training everyone else is entitled to but looking to do proper working at heights again (have done it previously with a local company including full scaffolding, restraints, working on roofs etc)

[smurfomatic]

At that kind of height, it should be a scaffold tower or scissor lift - especially if you're rigging lights, as you will need to use both hands when lifting them and a stepladder would be unsafe. A full risk assessment has to be done before working at height.

 

At my last school we had a scaffold tower, used for exactly this kind of thing. A 12 rung stepladder barely reached the projector hanging from the lighting rail, just enough to adjust the alignment/replace cabling.

[paulellam]

We purchased a scaffold tower, and me and the prems officers get certified to build it etc avery few years, saved us loads of money doing it ourselves.  6.5m ceiling in our hall, so similar.

[3s-gtech]

Yeah, tower. Only takes one fall from that height to wish you'd been using a tower instead (while rapidly descending). If you can't keep three points of contact it's just not safe - and I've done some sketchy ladder climbs (away from work).

[MicraMan]

I'm happy with heights, however sometimes its just not worth the risk i have dangled off ex Raf buildings at my last job about 10m for stuff but then again i look back and if i fell it's not ideal at all, better safe than sorry...

 

[FragglePete]

Should be a alluminium tower and you'll also need to get your PASMA certification that certifies you to build and climb it.  Without that, your breaking all sorts of Health & Safety Regulations.

 

PASMA should only be day out in a classroom with the afternoon actually building the tower, most builders merchants run the courses and has be renewed every five years I believe.

 

Pete

 

 

[Rob_D]

Site team has some taller ladders that would get us maybe 2m off the ground, anything above that we'd have to use the scaffold tower. Some years, our site team has rented a scissor lift for the summer holidays (I assume the site manager has a potential time savings v cost of the lift metric to know whether it's worth it for that holiday).

[Ditto]

Minimum is a tower. I know a couple of people who suffered falls from ladders, domestically, and it was highly impactful. Don't let the school cheapsake, protect yourself.

[Andrew_C]

As an alternative, have a look at https://www.escauk.co.uk/esca3000-access-equipment-operation .  A huge saving if you need to move while up top. Which you shouldn't  do on a tower!

[FragglePete]

10 hours ago, Ditto said:

Minimum is a tower. I know a couple of people who suffered falls from ladders, domestically, and it was highly impactful. Don't let the school cheapsake, protect yourself.

 

Guilty as charged!  

 

Fell off ladder cutting one rouge branch off a hedge at home - only a few rungs up.  Snapped Achilles Tendon on landing resulting in operation to repair and twelve weeks on crutches..... then four years later an infection from the internal stiches results in what was described as 'limb reconstruction' by the plastic surgeon, 15 nights in hospital!  Still plays up from time to time some tens years on.

 

Get a tower; do it properly.

 

Pete

[petben]

Thanks for all the replies, most of the towers we looked at have a lot of bits, a lot of time to put together, has anyone got a collapsible (in a good way) tower. Zarges do this, but 2m platform is just a little too low really. ZARGES Teletower Telescopic Mobile Scaffold Tower with Stabilisers 3m | Zarges | Access Towers | Arco

 

 

[Bumhug360]

Few years back Business Manager caught me standing on a desk to install a projector in a classroom, she went nuts and panicked over health and safety and sent me on a ladder course. While on the course the instructor was asking where people needed to use a ladder, I explained my situation and he said a ladder was completely unsuitable (due to 3 points of contact needed) and  standing on a desk was probably the safest method. So got a day off work learning how to use ladders I shouldn't be using anyway

[3s-gtech]

Yup, I've had that one from people who have no idea. A proper work platform (they tend to have a guardrail) is safer again, but a ladder or stepladder is sketchy for working on something that needs two hands!

[Chris_Cook]

Its really all about minimising risk using the best equipment possible/available.

 

For a main hall/venue, I would strongly recommend a tower. The hire cost isn't going to greatly increase the project cost, especially if your site team can do a job at the same time. Our HSS does delivery on them.

 

The mini towers are great - we've hired one in a couple of times for our primary schools, but we have a full size one for bigger jobs. The training course is easy.

 

AGR towers are better than the 3-t ones. Cost is a bit more, but they are much quicker.

 

When it comes to ladders, its good to read the HSE page on ladder safety and myths. When you aren't climbing/descending, kneecaps and chest can be a third point of contact for short periods such as putting a bolt or screw in. You just need to make sure you have a solid stance on the ladder, and lean into it 

 

With a projector it depends on the size, weight and bracket. With enough people, you can put a full size one in a hall roof using a rope, but I wouldn't recommend it unless experienced.

 

Another option for a classroom projector might be a second ladder and one person holds while another does up the bolts.

 

The risk with a table is there is no edge protection, so it would be easy to step off unexpectedly. A set of podium steps would be a great option if you do a lot of them.

Edited yesterday at 14:17 by Chris_Cook
AGR Towers

[jmak]

I mentioned that ladders became pretty much pointless due to the requirement for three points of contact when I was on my working at height training course. That's when I found out (according to my trainer) that two feet and a belly counts!

[Rob_D]

1 hour ago, jmak said:

That's when I found out (according to my trainer) that two feet and a belly counts!

I was told the same on my first working-at-heights course about 12 years back.

Which is a far cry from watching a Sky engineer get into his five-point harness, high-vis and hard hat, and drill anchor points into the wall, just to go up three steps.

[NegativeKillDeath]

13 hours ago, jmak said:

I mentioned that ladders became pretty much pointless due to the requirement for three points of contact when I was on my working at height training course. That's when I found out (according to my trainer) that two feet and a belly counts!

 

My belly is 1.5 points of contact on its own. 

 

Here the highest piece of equipment IT is responsible for is the main hall projector. Fortunately its attached to a a lighting gantry that lower-able on cables so we bring the projector down rather than go up to it. 

[nicholab]

At church 25 years plus ago I helped build a 14 m tower with two guys who had done a few-day PASMA course that also covered flying kit.  The 40 in glitter ball did provide an amazing effect to imply the radiance of the angels.  A 14-metre-high tower does move around a bit at the top.

[synaesthesia]

I'm glad the Belly Brigade have something to cheer about! Now we just need new shirts printed - ditch the "It's a fuel tank for a .... machine" ones and bring out the "It's my 3rd point of contact!" shirts!

[Andrew_C]

Really - have a look at this!  

They go up to a 7m working height, and you can safely (manually) drive it around from the top.

 

[synaesthesia]

I NEED one of those in my life.