In terms of 1:1 devices, why is this not the norm in the UK?

[FN-GM]

Many schools in countries such as Australia, New Zealand, and Singapore have already normalised the 1:1 device model, where every student has their own device to take to and from school each day. My nephews, for example, all use 1:1  laptops (funded by parents) as part of their daily routine. They go to school each day and come home each evening.

 

By contrast, the UK still largely relies on the same shared device model it used 20 years ago, with shared device that remain in school.

 

I am wondering why you think the UK failed to adapt to the 1:1 approach that has become standard across much of the developed world? Why have other countries adapted, while the UK remains hindered by the same obstacles?

 

[psydii]

Because as the costs of BSF became unsustainable in the wake of the financial crisis, education policy was reset to echo the nostalgic rose-tinted memory of 1950’s curriculum.  To support this, research that demonstrated that IT had little to do with outcomes (or actively harmed them) were promoted. So it didn’t matter that funding that could have made this happen was no longer available.
 

Then, in the interim, the IT literacy of teachers is plummeting, and they are unable to see when it is helping learning and when it is not, which (depressingly) seems to support the findings of the aforementioned sceptical research papers. Bit of a self fulfilling prophecy, but here we are.

 

Of course exceptions exist, but as with all initiatives or trends in education or business, often the improvements are actually caused by the people delivering then, not the specific technique they used.

[mthomas08]

Having done a device scheme where parents pay for them, which means the school doesn't own them.. that right there is problem number 1.

Should you install school licensed software on devices not owned by the school.

Should you image them and tie them down as a non school owned device.

What about repairs. Who supports it. What are you trying to actually accomplish. What about malware risks etc. 

How do you 'force' parents to sign up. What about those refusing to sign up. What about those damaged beyond repair and parents can't afford another device. Insurance. Warranty

 

This was nothing but a nightmare for us, not helped at the lack of support from leadership and the idea was supposed to scrap IT suites.. which they didn't want to lose.

 

If I go back far enough I will find a massive long post about it all here on EduGeek...  well before the pandemic.

 

Like most things, it has to be done properly.. effectively.. team work.. leadership involved.. teachers involved..  everyone doing their part.

 

And considering the costs involved.. to parents.. not sure how it can be justified..     jury is still out on the benefits of 1:1 learning.

[Andycat]

We've had a parent funded iPad scheme for over a decade now, but I think it will soon end. The responsibility for off site filtering and monitoring will be the nail in the coffin. Nobody wants a Smoothwall phonecall at 2am for someone in a bedroom who should be under their parents supervision, not ours!

[dmj]

We were doing Chromebook 1:1 back in 2014-15. It was successful in the school I was at (actually reduced support times as we minimised our windows estate).
Last I heard it was still running. 

 

The reason it's not a national strategy is simply politics

[Synkrox]

Same reasons as folks above but also.....

 

It's not the sunshine and roses the tech industry and paid "EdTech" shills would have you believe.

 

Just having these things turned on is a massive distraction to learning and another thing teachers don't need vying for attention in the classroom. And if they don't help with learning in the classroom, why would the school spend time and money trying to facilitate this?

 

I'm not blaming the kids by the way.... Grown up professional adults can be seen doomscrolling and doing other crap on their devices when they should be paying attention.

[sigma]

1 hour ago, psydii said:

Then, in the interim, the IT literacy of teachers is plummeting, and they are unable to see when it is helping learning and when it is not, which (depressingly) seems to support the findings of the aforementioned sceptical research papers. Bit of a self fulfilling prophecy, but here we are.

 

 

TBH, many of our teachers are unable/unwilling(?) to use the tools they are provided with to see if their class are using their devices for learning, configuring luxury cars or any other distraction.  

 

The bottom line is "cold hard cash", or lack of.

[E_G_R2]

Because we've always done it the old way?

 

Just like trying to move onto the cloud or adopt paperless teaching people in power seem to hold on to the way it was before.

 

I'd be asking why/how does it work in places like Australia and ~New Zealand then try and adopt those practices.  

[E_G_R2]

7 hours ago, FN-GM said:

Many schools in countries such as Australia, New Zealand, and Singapore have already normalised the 1:1 device model, where every student has their own device to take to and from school each day. My nephews, for example, all use 1:1  laptops (funded by parents) as part of their daily routine. They go to school each day and come home each evening.

 

By contrast, the UK still largely relies on the same shared device model it used 20 years ago, with shared device that remain in school.

 

I am wondering why you think the UK failed to adapt to the 1:1 approach that has become standard across much of the developed world? Why have other countries adapted, while the UK remains hindered by the same obstacles?

 

Be interesting if you could give a example of how it works for your nephew and their school?

[smurfomatic]

The school I left four years ago was just about to implement a 1:1 scheme. They bought cheap laptops, which broke easily (even without "encouragement" from pupils) and they ended up having to have so many spare devices it was ridiculous. 

 

Questions on ownership, storage/charging, responsibility for damage/spares, etc. were still unanswered when I left, I assume at least some of these were resolved before implementation - then again, SLT probably pressed on blindly without condiering the consequences...

[Rob_D]

41 minutes ago, psydii said:

Because as the costs of BSF became unsustainable in the wake of the financial crisis

I'm probably being a bit dense. What's BSF?

 

5 minutes ago, mthomas08 said:

Having done a device scheme where parents pay for them, which means the school doesn't own them.. that right there is problem number 1.

Most schemes I've seen more recently are lease type schemes, where parents pay for them over the 3-5 years, but until they're paid off, they're owned by the school/leasing company so schools can manage them, and they're under warranty from the leasing company.

In other countries a "school laptop" does seem as much of an expectation as uniform or a book-bag/rucksack is here (at least looking in from the outside). 

 

I do agree that a lot of rushed/half-baked, lockdown-driven schemes put a lot of people off, and that's probably part of it.

That aside, the main hurdle for us (an I imagine I'm not alone) is that the perception of laptop use in school is largely driven by how an 8 year old student "laptop trolley" laptop with half the keys missing performs (how will they charge it between lessons? etc).

 

16 minutes ago, mthomas08 said:

jury is still out on the benefits of 1:1 learning.

Maybe, but for us the requirement for students using computers across the curriculum, all the time, is just increasing and it's going to go up more now we're going "phone free" so they can't get the kids to use their phones.

We're getting into the silly position that the school definitely doesn't want a student 1:1 device scheme for all the reasons talked about in this thread but we need enough shared devices for all the students.

[E_G_R2]

Interesting to see how the 'push back' on screen time will effect 1:1 schemes.

[sigma]

4 minutes ago, Rob_D said:

I'm probably being a bit dense. What's BSF?

 

 

 

I took it as "Building Schools for the Future?

[Ratcliffepg]

We have been doing 1 to 1 Chromebooks for a number of years. Parents pay for the device so the student owns it, but we still end up replacing a fair number of screens.

 

Before this we use to have laptop trolleys, I don't miss them..... you all know why....

[psydii]

So if BSF was an obscure reference, I give you: Microsoft AAL.   I'll try and dig out my papers from when I was playing in that space, but here is a 2021 retrospective of the late 1990's programme.  Incidentally a programme that started (I believe) in Australia.

08 forum 63-2 dixon.pdf

Edited August 13 by psydii

[Roberto]

2 hours ago, dmj said:

We were doing Chromebook 1:1 back in 2014-15. It was successful in the school I was at (actually reduced support times as we minimised our windows estate).
Last I heard it was still running. 

 

The reason it's not a national strategy is simply politics

 

Yep. This could absolutely be a solved problem if considered at a national level. It would mean a rethink of more than just the end user devices themselves of course, but its entirely doable if the education ministers were able to think strategically and more longer terms than how close we are to the next election (I know we're supposed to steer clear of politics and I'm not picking on any one party but it occurs to me that my statement about longer term planning at that level could apply to way more than just education...). Oh joined up thinking about housing, infrastructure, transport, education, defence... a pipedream I know.

[Synkrox]

46 minutes ago, psydii said:

So if BSF was an obscure reference, I give you: Microsoft AAL.   I'll try and dig out my papers from when I was playing in that space, but here is a 2021 retrospective of the late 1990's programme.  Incidentally a programme that started (I believe) in Australia.

08 forum 63-2 dixon.pdf

Interesting read, thanks. 

The "Electric Dreams" paragraph sums my feelings quite nicely.

[synaesthesia]

I'd love to see a decent 1:1 provision, certainly along the Chromebook line. I still think the schools/trusts that went down this route with iPads should be investigated for misuse of public funds!

It works really well for our 6th form. It could certainly help with things like MFA if you choose devices with biometric readers. Obviously there are going to be difficulties with damage, keeping spares etc but nothing other countries see and deal with all the time. I do however worry that the mindset of some groups of students and indeed parents (you know the type) might be a barrier but again we don't hear much about how they are dealt with. Devices sold on for drugs, damaged on purpose as an excuse etc.

[Roberto]

7 minutes ago, synaesthesia said:

I'd love to see a decent 1:1 provision, certainly along the Chromebook line. I still think the schools/trusts that went down this route with iPads should be investigated for misuse of public funds!

It works really well for our 6th form. It could certainly help with things like MFA if you choose devices with biometric readers. 

 

Devices with biometric readers? Like TouchID or FaceID on Apple devices, you mean? 

[synaesthesia]

1 minute ago, Roberto said:

 

Devices with biometric readers? Like TouchID or FaceID on Apple devices, you mean? 

Fingerprint  

[Chris_Cook]

Apparently our 11" chromebooks are too heavy for Year 9. Year 7 seem ok with it though...

 

And the breakages we've seen. We laughed quite hard at the "My dog ate my chromebook charger" until the student got it out of his bag. 2 incidents of chromebooks being left on cookers. Several half chromebooks found on the field. Screen breakages are daily if not hourly. Water damage is common when it rains, as is damage on the football field and basketball courts at break time.

 

I love chromebooks, but they are seen as a free option so don't get looked after. Mind you laptops don't get looked after either.

 

Parents want various different things for web filtering at home. Some no access, some full access. 

[synaesthesia]

If it's a school owned device (or even just used with a school account) then they should be filtered exactly as if they were at school, surely?

[psydii]

23 minutes ago, Synkrox said:

Interesting read, thanks. 

The "Electric Dreams" paragraph sums my feelings quite nicely.

Yeah,  I always thought that 1:1  should have very much been restricted to  secondary school ages and above.  To lean into the 1950's nostalgia for a moment, you didn't get the ink pens until you were proficient writing with pencil.

 

When I was playing in the AAL/1:1 space we "didn't allow" people to enrol into the programme until they passed a touch-typing test and CLAIT.  Teachers were encouraged to have IT-free learning experiences baked into the schemes of learning. Students who weren't going to be given dispensation for exams  were required to do a proportion of their work long-hand.

And now today, I see lesson after lesson with kids on the trolley laptops drilling tests and what-not, making me wonder whether we've really really got it wrong.

THAT SAID, Our A Level results today are dramatically improved from last year, and seem to reflect the subjects that made consistent targeted use of the IT facilities to support learning. 

(Was it because of the IT or was it because those subjects were making efforts at all?  I'd argue that all subjects were making efforts, so (very roughly) the data was controlled for that, so IT *is* making a difference, in our specific situation)

[Chris_Cook]

1 hour ago, synaesthesia said:

If it's a school owned device (or even just used with a school account) then they should be filtered exactly as if they were at school, surely?

I should have said parent funded, therefor some parents think they know best. They are indeed filtered more or less the same as at school, but somethings are allowed if they are just blocked in school to keep kids on task.

 

We direct parents to their ISP if they want stricter filtering at home as other devices are likely in use that would bypass our filtering.

[dmj]

3 hours ago, synaesthesia said:

If it's a school owned device (or even just used with a school account) then they should be filtered exactly as if they were at school, surely?

That's how we did it (10yrs ago). It's not difficult to setup. At it's simplest just route all the traffic through the school.