Windows 11 - e-waste mountian this year?

[Ditto]

I've been doing some background reading in to the end of Windows 10 support later this year, unless you cough up some cash to MS. The requirements for Windows 11 effectively kill a huge number of older devices if you wish to stay up to date OS wise. I know personally it will kill all bar one of my devices. I tend to buy older, but big devices. For example, I'm writing this on a 10 year+ Dell T5500 and to replace it with an equivalent W11 compatible machine is prohibitive. TPM is a big factor but I am aware of reports that TPM 2.0 has already been compromised. Background reading shows a huge backlash against Microsoft and whilst I accept legacy can have it's risks and limitations, not many people are trusting Microsofts arguments. Are all the Linux flavours inherently less secure if they don't require TPM 2.0? Some articles estimate up to a quarter of billion devices will become e-waste almost overnnight. That's not a good outcome.

 

Specifically, within your schools, have you assessed what devices will become e-waste later this year and what is the plan to deal with those devices.

[dhicks]

Specifically, within your schools, have you assessed what devices will become e-waste later this year and what is the plan to deal with those devices.

 

We updated our older Windows and Mac desktop machines last summer, with the old machines going to a charity - in our case, as they cover our area, Power To Connect in Wandsworth:

 

https://www.powertoconnect.co.uk/

 

There are probably similar organisations around the country. They take devices up to around 8 years old - that matches up quite well with the expected lifetime (in terms of update availability) for Macs, and I'm guessing Windows machines would probably be expected to last a similar amount of time. We'll be updating our oldest Chromebooks this year, 100 devices, again with the older devices (still with 2 years of updates available) going to the charity. My guess is that a fair few older Windows or Mac machines wind up being reformatted as ChromeOS Flex devices for home use.

[Asgard]

I've been doing some background reading in to the end of Windows 10 support later this year, unless you cough up some cash to MS. The requirements for Windows 11 effectively kill a huge number of older devices if you wish to stay up to date OS wise. I know personally it will kill all bar one of my devices. I tend to buy older, but big devices. For example, I'm writing this on a 10 year+ Dell T5500 and to replace it with an equivalent W11 compatible machine is prohibitive. TPM is a big factor but I am aware of reports that TPM 2.0 has already been compromised. Background reading shows a huge backlash against Microsoft and whilst I accept legacy can have it's risks and limitations, not many people are trusting Microsofts arguments. Are all the Linux flavours inherently less secure if they don't require TPM 2.0? Some articles estimate up to a quarter of billion devices will become e-waste almost overnnight. That's not a good outcome.

 

Specifically, within your schools, have you assessed what devices will become e-waste later this year and what is the plan to deal with those devices.

 

The extra wrinkle you know have is Microsoft have said that come October 25, Office365 becomes unsupported on Win10

 

https://www.theverge.com/2025/1/15/24344209/microsoft-365-office-apps-windows-10-end-of-support

 

I had a pretty frank conversation with our reseller and an MS rep and the kick back from them was —— we are releasing our M365 Link box (thin client) and azure virtual desktops are heavily subsidised for education.

 

We have a small number of PCs we had planned to throw on Extended Support and change in Jan but I’m possibly thinking of applying the bodge to sccm to allow them to update and sort them come Sept in new budget land

 

I asked about CE and he went we don’t care. And I said ok so are you saying it’s a conditional access policy to disable Win10 from connecting into your estate

 

“Pretty much! “

 

Oh ok what about heavily deprived areas where moving to Win11 isn’t an option

 

“Buy a cheap tablet and web apps”

 

Slow clap Microsoft , slow clap

Edited January 22, 2025 by Asgard

[Steve21]

I asked about CE and he went we don’t care. And I said ok so are you saying it’s a conditional access policy to disable Win10 from connecting into your estate

 

“Pretty much! “

 

Not sure where he got that from as it says on the support doc it's not being blocked, just not officially supported:

 

Support for Windows 10 will end on October 14, 2025. After that date, if you're running Microsoft 365 on a Windows 10 device, the applications will continue to function as before. However, we strongly recommend upgrading to Windows 11 to avoid performance and reliability issues over time.

 

So basically it's a "don't shoot us when it does break" kind of response!

 

Steve

[Asgard]

CE assessor will have a hard time accepting that

[Steve21]

CE assessor will have a hard time accepting that

 

Well yes but from your comment about bodging the Win11 upgrade via SCCM I thought you meant just in terms of being able to use it until you replaced them

 

Steve

[Cat_Jam148]

Specifically, within your schools, have you assessed what devices will become e-waste later this year and what is the plan to deal with those devices.

 

Yep, not a single device here which doesn't fully support Windows 11. No bodged installs or workarounds.

 

When Windows 11 released, I made our SLT aware that Windows 10 days were numbered and that any device not able to fully support 11 needed to be replaced. They coughed up the appropriate money and all is good.

 

The writing has been on the wall for a good few years now, so the retirement of Windows 10 shouldn't come as a shock to any org. IT professionals should have been continually banging the drum about it at every opportunity to the higher ups.

[PotNoodleTech]

I am 80% newer kit - hoping to get funding in april to do the last 3 IT suites and acouple of PCs dotted around that are still older Dell Optiplex's.

 

If your bending over backwards bodging stuff to try and get/keep archaic kit working on windows 11 then your shooting yourself (and your school) in the foot IMHO as this is an absoloute golden opportunity to get new kit funded by order of Microsoft/Local Authority/Trust Directors/Government.

 

You dont get many chances to say "we have to/we've been instructed to" this is one of them.

[3s-gtech]

I have been shifting serious quantities of old kit out over the last few years, but we have so many PCs that we won't have replaced them all by the cutoff. Windows 11 was a good reason to finally EoL stuff that's ancient - we've found that many web apps like Teams and OnShape won't even happily run on some of the old suites now, so their time has come. It's only the same sort of stunt Apple have played for years, and I'm busy retiring old iMacs too.

[Synkrox]

Yep, not a single device here which doesn't fully support Windows 11. No bodged installs or workarounds.

 

When Windows 11 released, I made our SLT aware that Windows 10 days were numbered and that any device not able to fully support 11 needed to be replaced. They coughed up the appropriate money and all is good.

 

The writing has been on the wall for a good few years now, so the retirement of Windows 10 shouldn't come as a shock to any org. IT professionals should have been continually banging the drum about it at every opportunity to the higher ups.

 

Totally this. All our devices are Win 11 because we planned for it.

[LeMarchand]

I have complied a report of all kit that won't run W11, warned of the date and also included relevant bits from KCSIE about the importance of keeping kit up to date. The response?

 

 

At least I have a paper trail!

[supportman]

I think its a good thing to refresh the hardware around. E-Waste is pretty much totally recycled these days.

[mbedford]

Yep, not a single device here which doesn't fully support Windows 11. No bodged installs or workarounds.

 

When Windows 11 released, I made our SLT aware that Windows 10 days were numbered and that any device not able to fully support 11 needed to be replaced. They coughed up the appropriate money and all is good.

 

The writing has been on the wall for a good few years now, so the retirement of Windows 10 shouldn't come as a shock to any org. IT professionals should have been continually banging the drum about it at every opportunity to the higher ups.

 

They took the drum off of us in the last round of cost saving exercises. Said if we weren't careful the sticks are next :-(

[Chockster]

I'd love to know how to get the money some of you have managed to get. Our trust and SLT have known about this since the first announcement of Windows EoL and we've had a real terms budget cut since. There is no extra money for replacements beyond our normal cycle, which leaves us with >200 devices that are in limbo.

[PotNoodleTech]

I'd love to know how to get the money some of you have managed to get. Our trust and SLT have known about this since the first announcement of Windows EoL and we've had a real terms budget cut since. There is no extra money for replacements beyond our normal cycle, which leaves us with >200 devices that are in limbo.

 

I think half our role now is purely influencing and convincing Governors/Head/SLT/Business Manager to prioritise ICT spending as ICT is the fourth utility didn't you know!

 

I bet your trust cant afford 200 pcs but has spent £50k on vape sensors or something else along those lines. In my experience, there is ALWAYS money it's just convincing them to spend it on ICT rather than on some other crap waste of money scheme.

[Synkrox]

I'd love to know how to get the money some of you have managed to get. Our trust and SLT have known about this since the first announcement of Windows EoL and we've had a real terms budget cut since. There is no extra money for replacements beyond our normal cycle, which leaves us with >200 devices that are in limbo.

 

If they don't fund an MOT for the minibus do they still use it?

 

If you've made the case and they've chosen not to give the money requested, then they have decided to retire >200 devices they can't afford to maintain and will have to rearrange the rest of the IT estate to accommodate the needs of staff.

[Chockster]

they have decided to retire >200 devices they can't afford to maintain and will have to rearrange the rest of the IT estate to accommodate the needs of staff.

 

That's how I'm currently looking at it. We'll use this years budget to cover teaching PCs in classrooms, and the rest will be retired.

[Synkrox]

That's how I'm currently looking at it. We'll use this years budget to cover teaching PCs in classrooms, and the rest will be retired.

 

Classroom teaching PC's were the first thing I chopped when cutting back at a previous school. Replaced with Wireless projection or an HDMI lead to their laptop.

[mdrabble]

Did look at Win 10 LTSC as a stop gap but though why should I scrimp/save/bodge when if anything goes wrongs - it's me that will get it in the neck!

 

I went down the Cyber Security route - no updates, no patches = security issues

 

Head and Governors have been very good and authorised slight over spend on my budget for the last 2 years

 

I've got approx 100 devices (1 IT Suite and Teacher/Office devices) left to replace out of approx 500

 

Head and Governors have been very good and authorised slight over spend on my budget but I think that is only because I laid it on thick about my concerns.

[Ditto]

So in the main, it looks like many are in good shape, and those that aren't, it isn't for the lack of trying. What we really haven't discussed, is it all worth the expense and e-wastage that results. Well, at an enterprise level, and I include schools in that category, on balance I guess I have to agree it is a necessary expense. However, for the home domestic user I think the case is much less clear cut. I had an interesting session with ChatGPT on this very topic. ChatGPT once again impressed. I thought simplest to post the ChatGPT response to my topic around e-wastage for domestic users as a result of MS insistency on requiring TPM 2.0 support.

 

[Olliedawg]

Time is ticking...!

 

I believe the Win10 ESU are cheap for education customers. Last I read it was £1 per device for the first year, going up by a pound each year (up to 3 years).

 

We will be buying some ESU, to buy us more time to replace our remaining IT suites

[Ditto]

Time is ticking...!

 

I believe the Win10 ESU are cheap for education customers. Last I read it was £1 per device for the first year, going up by a pound each year (up to 3 years).

 

We will be buying some ESU, to buy us more time to replace our remaining IT suites

I can see that being agreeable to a number of education establishments, giving more time upgrade kit. Do you know if there is a 'Not for Profit' price. Not applicable for my charity employer as all our kit is Win 11 compatible as we built in a 4 year refresh programme not so many years ago.

 

It doesn't help the domestic home user environment though. I do wonder is there will be some last minute change by MS though. At present, I have some old, but super expensive to replace kit that I appear to have 2 choices on. a) stay on unsupported Windows 10; b) move to an unsupported Windows 11 install; c) Convert the devices to a Linux flavour or some of the smaller units could go ChromeOS I guess. Fortunately, the kids PC/gaming machines are the newest machines in the household around and are Windows 11 compatible.

[PotNoodleTech]

Domestic home user doesnt really need "support" though. Have you ever reported a big at home and they've patched your OS for you? Have you ever reported anything or contacted microsoft at home at all?? Most people would answer no I would wager.

[Koldov]

Domestic home user doesnt really need "support" though. Have you ever reported a big at home and they've patched your OS for you? Have you ever reported anything or contacted microsoft at home at all?? Most people would answer no I would wager.

 

Really...? 'Microsoft' are always trying to contact me at home!

 

Did look at Win 10 LTSC as a stop gap but... *SNIP*... I went down the Cyber Security route - no updates, no patches = security issues

 

Ah, so you relied on their lack of IT knowledge to massage the truth...? Interesting...

 

I seem to remember Windows 8 prompted a similar cull and had a lot of people needing to buy a new computer? I went 7 to 10 and by then needed a new computer anyway, so missed out on that issue at the time.

Edited January 24, 2025 by Koldov

[Ditto]

Domestic home user doesnt really need "support" though. Have you ever reported a big at home and they've patched your OS for you? Have you ever reported anything or contacted microsoft at home at all?? Most people would answer no I would wager.

I agree. I even wonder whether our MSP as ever had direct advice or support from MS staff. But, even as a domestic customer, I do want to stay as patched up as possible without having to be forced to new hardware. Based on details above, that would not put me at significantly more risk. So, allowing me to migrate to Windows 11 (and it doesn't appear to be that difficult) maybe better than lingering in Windows 10. Even better, MS support an alternative solution to upgrade to TPM 2.0 as highlighted in the ChatGPT reply. If everyone switched from older non-upgradeable PCs to new kit, a huge number of OEM Windows licenses are going to generate MS a huge chunk of money, but also a huge mountain of e-waste. Profit over planet! I guess given the location of the company, that comes as no surprise currently.