Nova T6 without SIMS

[Seb1780]

Good morning,

 

We're currently in the process of assessing new suppliers for our MIS and it will not be SIMS.

 

Our timetabler insists that they must have Nova T6 as "it's the only way I can do my job"; they've even convinced the Head that this is the case.

 

Has anyone got experience of using Nova T6 with Arbor and/or Bromcom? In particular, how do you get your license for Nova T6?

 

Thanks

[Warwick_Tech]

Hi Seb,

 

It's both easy and difficult to use Nova as a standalone, you can grab the files (and the licence) from a valid SIMS install and install this anywhere; but it comes with certain restrictions - Most notably the version number will be updated each time a big SIMS patch is run, so timetables created on each satellite will be incompatible with each other on a different version number, as well as being imported back to SIMS.

 

You also need to consider backups as the generated timetable files need to be accessible to everyone who does timetabling and backed up securely.

 

I know you can import Nova files into Bromcom directly, but don't know about Arbor.

[Max_Power]

Used NOVA T-6 as standalone since our move away from SIMS to iSAMS around 6 years ago. Works fine no issues to speak of, works in similar fashion. Map a new drive to a new location where the timetable files are stored, and then ensure said location is backed up, and NOVA T-6 points to new location and job done quite literally.

 

Cost for the licence is around £3500 a year (with 1700 students on roll).

[2ilent8cho]

When we dumped SIMS we used https://www.timetabler.com/ instead of Nova T6. Sounds like they don't want the hassle of learning a new program and want to stay on Nova T6 until they retire.

[SpreadsheetJockey]

We also use Timetabler now, whereas before we used Nova T6. You can import from Nova into Bromcom, but not from Nova into Arbor. Also Arbor have just bought Timetabler, from my understanding, so I expect there to be more development on Timetabler in the future (I hope for something cloud based) and even better linking with Arbor. I can see why your timetabler is clinging to Nova, it is familiar and pretty easy to use. However, having recently experienced it, I can say that switching is completely doable if you give the person enough time and training.

[synaesthesia]

Nova is one of the things SIMS/Capita did exceptionally well, to the point that I suspect it's still easily the best overall timetabling software available. It is old and not particularly elegant (much like most of ESS offerings) but extremely functional. I'd rate it higher than Timetabler from personal limited experience, but couldn't say from a timetabler's perspective because so many will be biased against change. If memory serves me correctly, the cost of Timetabler was less than the cost of running just Nova alone so that often helps

[Max_Power]

Also Arbor have just bought Timetabler

 

Really... I didn't know that... we use their Options package but the Timetable software wasn't able to fully handle our timetable (to complex apparently), so stuck with NOVA T-6. Maybe this could be a turning point.

[SpreadsheetJockey]

Really... I didn't know that... we use their Options package but the Timetable software wasn't able to fully handle our timetable (to complex apparently), so stuck with NOVA T-6. Maybe this could be a turning point.

 

Well, The Key Group have, who also own Arbor amongst other things.

 

See here: https://thekeygroup.com/news-insights/the-key-group-acquires-timetabler-extending-its-market-leading-offering-to-schools-and-mats

[mthomas08]

Good morning,

 

We're currently in the process of assessing new suppliers for our MIS and it will not be SIMS.

 

Our timetabler insists that they must have Nova T6 as "it's the only way I can do my job"; they've even convinced the Head that this is the case.

 

Has anyone got experience of using Nova T6 with Arbor and/or Bromcom? In particular, how do you get your license for Nova T6?

 

Thanks

 

We were in the exact situation when we left SIMs.

 

Do you need to keep Nova T? No. Let me be clear on this.

 

This is because it can be quite difficult learning a new system and the lack of confidence etc. Our DHT struggled but got there in the end - depending if you Arbor or Bromcom you may need something like this

https://www.timetabler.com/download/

 

The issue comes from the ability to migrate Nova T data - THIS WAS A WHILE AGO - but at the time Bromcom didn't have the ability to migrate from Nova T or do too much timetable stuff so we got this software. Can't remember the details sorry. I think Bromcom have made a lot of changes/updates - I do see a new area within the system for timetables.

 

Nova T satellite - you can setup the software to work independently without the server. At the time we setup everything to work without SIMs because I didn't want to do anymore updates and left the server to sit there as a plan B in the event we pulled the plug on Bromcom. Created a new drive for it and kept a copy of the install files etc. Left it down to the DHT to train himself on the new software etc.

 

Only question I would put is are you licensed to use Nova T after the contract runs out.

 

So yes, you can get rid of Nova T but it is a big change for the person doing timetables.

 

If you want more details, send a PM.

[Linfit]

We currently user Nova-T with Bromcom and have no issues. Import is slightly more long-winded but works OK.

I don't know about Nova and Arbor.

 

We looked at Timetabler but the workflows and ways of doing things are very different to Nova and its a big, but not insurmountable effort to change - I can understand why someone would not want to, but if they have been timetabling for a while its not that bad.

 

Also worth bearing in mind that Bromcom have done a lot of development this year on their new web based timetabling package and some schools have used this even though its technically only just in the release phase and they have only just started running training. It looks OK: different to Nova and Timetabler of course but nearer to Nova I think in terms of workflow and much better than their old e-timetabler. Next year we are going to use this and ditch Nova as that's when our current SIMS contract expires and we don't want to pay the licence fee which is excessive in my view for one piece of software.

[DaveTheTech]

We have moved from Nova-T6 to aSC Timetabes or Timetabler.

 

https://www.timetabler.com/timetabler/

https://www.asctimetables.com/

[psydii]

Following on from your extremely helpful insight in a more recent thread, @Seb1780 where did you land with this one?

[Seb1780]

Following on from your extremely helpful insight in a more recent thread, @Seb1780 where did you land with this one?

 

We've gone with Bromcom so can still use NT6, which we will do up until the point where our current timetabler leaves / retires / dies / sees the light!

[PotNoodleTech]

Get a new timetabler. It will be cheaper over the next 5 years than paying £4k a year for a piece of software that hasnt changed since 1998.

[pete]

We've gone with Bromcom so can still use NT6, which we will do up until the point where our current timetabler leaves / retires / dies / sees the light!

 

Make sure they've read this page all the way to the bottom - especially the last bit about Class Names which really needs to be at the top of the article, not the bottom.

 

https://docs.bromcom.com/knowledge-base/how-to-import-a-timetable-from-nova-t/

 

 

Also concurr about getting a new or different timetabler. See if the person who currently has to deal with school buses is interested in exchange for not having to deal with school buses anymore.

[Linfit]

Get a new timetabler. It will be cheaper over the next 5 years than paying £4k a year for a piece of software that hasnt changed since 1998.

 

True but one of the reasons it hasn't changed much is because it was very very good. - It was not oringinally a Capita or a SIMS product.

I have timetabled for 20+ years and not yet found a problem I couldn't solve with it. Timetabler is close, but still not as good, and the new Bromcom timetable software is coming on very quickly, but still not up to the sophistication of Nova.

You also have to consider that the timetabling is not a once a year process - timetables change constantly through the year, sometimes quite fundamentally, and Nova is still the best at managing maintenance data sets.

The issue isn't the quality of the software but the outrageous price ESS want to charge for it thinking that have schools that use it over a barrel.

Edited December 19, 2024 by Linfit

[ee31ag]

Looking at the "screenshots" on this Arbor page, I'm wondering if TimeTabler might be about to get a facelift which might make it more appealing to some users:

 

https://arbor-education.com/timetabler/

[Theblacksheep]

Our timetablers seem incapable of using any other product other than Nova.

 

Can this still be purchased as a standalone, does anyone have any upto date pricing?

[willtech]

I don't believe you can or if you can you will be paying a high rate. Thing is stuff is moving to next gen, so deployment will stop on it at some point surly. 

Edited June 11 by willtech

[Theblacksheep]

Thanks, I couldnt see anywhere that it can be purchased now.  It looks linked the the curric managment suite and that also requires a SIMS contract?

[Theblacksheep]

Someone has contacted them and they do still sell it, but they dont seem to advertise it.

[DrBeaker]

6 hours ago, Theblacksheep said:

Our timetablers seem incapable of using any other product other than Nova.

 

Can this still be purchased as a standalone, does anyone have any upto date pricing?

 

Tell them to move with the times like IT folks get told to when there's new systems and we ask for training ...and get told there's none / no time / no budget.

 

[DrCheese]

I asked this recently - Cost was £3,500. It was just as a backup option

 

I strongly agree with what others in this thread have said tho - It's not worth it.

 

On our Bromcom demo site, we did a fresh import from Nova T6 into Bromcom as a test on our final day & it just causes big headaches, that would have required a metric ton of work to fix & even then, would not have been perfect.

Because of this, I've banned our timetabler from doing a Nova-T import into the live version & our plan is to use Bromcom native for timetabling for the next academic year.

 

Drag them, kicking and screaming into the modern age

 

 

[DeeGee]

I was in that position a couple of years ago, moved from SIMS to BROMCOM but was completely used to NOVA-T6 and was reluctant to have to learn a new tool. However, my CEO reminded me that if I was a "real" timetabler, I should be able to use anything. And he was right.

 

NOVA-T6 is fine as a legacy tool, it does its job well, however, wTimetable is really good and I'm so glad I changed. My favourite feature is the fact that, being cloud-based, anyone in the trust who knows what they are doing can go in, make a copy of the current model and try different scenarios. You can have a timetable team all working across the trust, and you can more easily do clever stuff like timetabling a member of staff to two schools - allows a greater trust overisght. The autoschedule routines are really quick now, and when they can't do you a 100% fit the engine gives really useful feedback so you can work out what compromises best to make.

 

Two or three people can timetable simultaneously - our Science leads like to adjust staffing of Dual Award to make the most of people's talents, and I trust them to just go in and use the staffing scheduling screen to move staff around - with my support, obviously. And he can do that while I'm finalising a different curriculum area. Timetabling becomes a collaborative effort - which you couldn't do with NOVA-T6 as two concurrent sessions open would result in someone's data overwriting someone else's.

 

If you're using BROMCOM as an MIS it just seamlessly links back, and there's no risk of messing the grid up with the manual export routine that you have to do with NOVA-T. 

 

And it's not just in one school - I timetable across a trust, we've used it for an 11-18 school with 12FE, a split site school, a village school, primaries. I've yet to find a scenario that, with a little true timetabler's initiative, wTT can't handle.

[C3PO]

Hi All

So when we moved away from SIMs, there was the debate in learning a brand new timetable application, when there was already pressures in learning a brand new MIS system which in our case was BromCom.

So I decided to stay with Nova as a standalone - but I also learned that they charged an extortionate amount just to keep this application - but it meant that there were not as many pressurea. Integration worked fine but a year later we have moved to WTimetable. It is a slight different method in constructing the timetable but as we get more familiar will strengthen our processes and workflow.

I must also say, that the application itself is really good and with upcoming developments with AI will be even more powerful which is what we are looking forward to.