Redcare monitored alarm and BT Analog > Digital

[Koldov]

My Site Agent has just come to me with a quote from Chubb security to change our Redcare monitored alarm over from the BT analogue line to digital...

 

Not sure why he came to me but there was a worrying line on the quote stating both 'Radio to Radio' or 'Radio to IP'.

 

Now I don't have anything to do with the phones or the alarm system, but I do remember something in the news a while ago with lots of alarm companies saying that elderly people with panic/personal alarms are going to be in trouble as they all use traditional landline/copper and BT are going to switch this off in the near future.

 

So, I guess it's part of that but I don't have a clue how to advise or whether it means I'll be involved at some point.

 

I 'think' we rent a separate dedicated copper line directly from BT as opposed to using our phone provider, but I'm not sure if we've had any direct contact from them on alternatives...

 

Anyway on the alarm side of things 'Radio to Radio' or 'Radio to IP' I presume 'Radio to IP' means plug it onto our existing phones?

 

Any help would be appreciated!

Edited March 5, 2024 by Koldov

[Oaktech]

Our alarm provider installed small cellular modems on our alarms when we went voip, they built the ongoing subscription cost into our bill.

 

I think they had a one-off cost of about £150 per alarm panel and an ongoing cost of about £8 a month.

[Simcfc73]

We got rid of Redcare ages ago..

 

The alarm company added a 4G sim card and an external antenna with a IP backup.

[MatthewL]

Redcare is closing down their service in 2025.

 

My security firm I use for bits binned them over 15 years ago and has been using SIM card based systems since which are far cheaper, obviously you have your subscription but its cheaper than their monthly costs.

 

Recommendation is 4G/5G based offerings, many do have option to plug into the network and communicate over IP. Communicating over IP comes at no monthly cost for that side of things if using existing infrastructure, then you just pay what ever monthly fees to the ARC. Everything is IP based now weather it be SIM or wired connection.

[Koldov]

Ok thanks...

 

But lets back up and eli5 please!

 

The alarm panel gets a 4G sim in a cellular modem with external antenna - this is 'Radio to Radio' I presume? As in effectively the alarm panel makes a mobile phone call?

 

IP backup or 'Radio to IP' is the alarm panel physically plugged into a phone socket of a voIP or other system...?

 

As we don't have voIP we have a 'traditional' type of box in a cupboard (3rd party provider) which then I presume ends up on a BT line somewhere...

[Michael]

Over the years I've had various alarm panels upgraded to digital - in the form of a network card and/or a 4G SIM or both.

 

Some require additional firewall rules and some work with no additional configuration.

 

The only other cost to factor in is an Ethernet port next to the alarm panel, directly from the nearest cab/server room to remove any possible links in the chain.

[msi_school]

@Koldov I assume you are aware of the Analog phone switch off in 2025?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-transition-from-analogue-to-digital-landlines

[Koldov]

So for the 'network' option we have to figure in that if ever a switch blew, had a power cut or got misconfigured = no alarm?

 

Also I guess you have it on a separate VLAN?

[Oaktech]

So for the 'network' option we have to figure in that if ever a switch blew, had a power cut or got misconfigured = no alarm?

 

Also I guess you have it on a separate VLAN?

 

Vlan is up to you and the complexity of your network. One of my schools we have an IOT Vlan which is not routed to any other other vlan, it just sees straight out onto the internet, that would contain something like the alarm in our case.

 

Our Trust have stipulated however that the fire, intruder, lift and gas storage alarms have to be independent of the school network, so cellular modems all round!

[Koldov]

@Koldov I assume you are aware of the Analog phone switch off in 2025?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-transition-from-analogue-to-digital-landlines

 

Now I don't have anything to do with the phones or the alarm system, but I do remember something in the news a while ago with lots of alarm companies saying that elderly people with panic/personal alarms are going to be in trouble as they all use traditional landline/copper and BT are going to switch this off in the near future.

 

Yes vaguely...

 

I don't have an analogue 'land line' phone and haven't for many, many years (I also don't have any elderly relatives with an alarm linked to it), so I didn't take a lot of notice.

 

Also I don't have anything to do with phones or alarms on site etc. These are solely the Site Services and Business Managers purview and they have 3rd party contractors to deal with it all.

 

I was purely looking looking for advice so I can help (and to be fair I wanted to be 'in the know' as some part of it will inevitably end up landing on my desk - especially if they go IP)...

[MatthewL]

Even if you do have a VOIP system you could in theory just plug the line into an ATA and use that, same if you host your own PBX that goes via a SIP trunk in theory it would all work would it not?

[Koldov]

Even if you do have a VOIP system you could in theory just plug the line into an ATA and use that, same if you host your own PBX that goes via a SIP trunk in theory it would all work would it not?

 

HAHA! I don't know!

 

I just came looking for answers, not more questions...

 

Seriously though, I'm reasonably sure we don't have voIP, as far as I know there is a box in the cupboard and I think that ends up going out through a BT line somewhere...

 

However, I also thought Redcare required us to have an exclusive (copper) line through BT. Could be wrong as I'm not directly involved, but that's the gist I got through various conversation over the years.

 

I mean it might not be just a case of sticking the cable into the box in the cupboard. As I said, I thought Redcare/BT require a direct line (?), which makes sense, no point in having it routed through a different providers network (or even our own), especially something as important as an alarm line... which is what the Trust that @Oaktech works for stipulates.

[Edu-IT]

Redcare would usually have its own dedicated line, yes.

 

Newer solutions are either dual radio (two SIM cards with two independent antenna) or single radio (one SIM card with one antenna) and IP so plugged into a data port.

 

If you go IP, there will be specific ports to unblock for communication.

 

Whichever option you choose you will want dual path.

[MatthewL]

Redcare lines back in the day were dedicated lines for such purposes without the interuption i.e. say you had a red care line for a lift but it was linked to your fax machines and someone pressed the button when a fax was coming it they could end up stuck in lift for longer, same with the alarm.

 

When Redcare expanded they went to the like of 4G solutions but no they are getting rid of the lot.

 

The line benefitted from having a higher SLA due to its use.

 

What you need to be checking is what your ARC can recieve, most will be setup to recieve via data weather that be 4G or IP. Back in the day it used to play a message if I am right so be worth speaking to your alarm supplier and ARC.

[CrootUK]

DualCom by CSL Group are the units alarm providers have been installing here, completely disconnecting that analogue line, it has dual sims as well as an RJ45 port for backup. They can also do antenna runs for schools with poor signal.

[Koldov]

Redcare would usually have its own dedicated line, yes.

 

Newer solutions are either dual radio (two SIM cards with two independent antenna) or single radio (one SIM card with one antenna) and IP so plugged into a data port.

 

If you go IP, there will be specific ports to unblock for communication.

 

Whichever option you choose you will want dual path.

 

Ah this might clear something up then as I saw on the quote 'Radio/Radio' or 'Radio/IP'...

 

Dual path makes sense as the Site Agent has said the engineer for the 3rd party installers reckons the radio (cellular) option can be a bit prone to false alarms/signal dropping (obviously Site Agent doesn't want regular 3 a.m. false alarm calls). Not sure if having two cellular paths makes a difference if the general signal in the area drops though...