Obsolete products. Do Apple give much warning?

[Gongalong]

Hi folks,

 

I was a bit surprised to spot our 2017 iMacs are obsolete, so no more MacOS/security updates. (I say a bit surprised because I knew that Apple hardware tends to go obsolete around 5-7 years) I had kept an eye out on Apple channels for mention of obsolete products but must have missed it.

 

Do Apple give much warning for products going obsolete, and is there an official channel where they let customers know?

 

Thanks

[3s-gtech]

I think they have another year at least yet, assuming they’re on MacOS 12. That’s still getting updates.

 

But no newer OS versions, no - not that you ever miss that much.

[Gongalong]

They just got a Ventura update (v13something) but when I spotted no v14 I checked with Apple support and was told no more security updates. Of course I wouldn't be surprised if Apple support had got it wrong. I also had a feeling that Apple still put out security updates for older versions of MacOS if a nasty issue.

[3s-gtech]

13 will have plenty of life yet. As you say, they do also put out emergency patches for older OSs sometimes.

[FN-GM]

 

Do Apple give much warning for products going obsolete, and is there an official channel where they let customers know?

 

Thanks

 

When they stop providing major releases for hardware, they continue with security updates for 3 years.

[Gongalong]

Thanks both. Moral of that story, don't trust Apple support!

[bknaggs]

When new versions of MacOS, iPadOS or iOS are announced a list of compatible models is released.

 

Towards the bottom of this page is a list of iPads compatible with iPadOS 17 - https://www.apple.com/uk/ipados/ipados-17/

Likewise for MacOS Sonoma/14 - https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/sonoma/

[Dos_Box]

This would probably account for why there are so many cheap 2015+ Apple laptops\desktops on eBay now. Just look at how much the trashcan Mac Pro can be picked up for now! I'll wait a few years and grab one as an ornament I think.

There are a lot of vids on YouTube now from over the past year or so as to what projects you can do with these older devices (Linux etc.).

Apple Silicon has basically drawn a line under the Intel Macs and people are moving rapidly to the new platform now.

 

I have to admit to being a bit excited to see which direction PC's go with ARM based systems. This will introduce a lot more competition in the market as there are only a few companies in the world with licences to create x86 chips. Although, with SoC's being soldered to the board, it would make upgrading the CPU unlikely, unless someone wants to get into a socket war!

[dhicks]

This would probably account for why there are so many cheap 2015+ Apple laptops\desktops on eBay now.

 

They make fine re-purposed ChromeOS devices - I'm now using a re-formatted ChromeOS iMac (early 2015 model, I think) as my daily workstation.

[PotNoodleTech]

Nothing lasts forever. That being said 5 or so years is pretty poor - most of us would expect to be able to run devices beyond year 5.

[2ilent8cho]

I think Apple are just being more aggressive than they usually would at ending support because they want Intel chips gone, so MacOS won't need to ship with 2 binaries, hence the installer went from around 4GB to 8GB when the M1 chips came out. We still have over 100 2014 iMacs running fine on Ventura and Sonoma , OpenCore patch them, it's not much different than forcing Windows 11 on to PCs that don't officially support it. macOS licence terms are that it can only be installed on Apple Mac's, or within a VM on a Mac, its not like hackintoshing which is against the T's and C's.

[Roberto]

Nothing lasts forever. That being said 5 or so years is pretty poor - most of us would expect to be able to run devices beyond year 5.

 

They don't stop running, just won't be updated. I have a 12 year old Macbook air that still does what it does just fine. Same as an old Windows computer that doesn't meet the TPM requirements for Windows 11; 10 still runs, just won't be updated past a certain point.

[chaplic]

For extra annoyance, if you are using intune to manage ipads etc, they are very aggressive about what versions of iOS they support so indirectly makes the device obsolete even before apple stop support...

[Gongalong]

Nothing lasts forever. That being said 5 or so years is pretty poor - most of us would expect to be able to run devices beyond year 5.

I'm no Apple advocate, but these have had a 7 year lifespan with current MacOS, it sounds like they will get another 3 years with security updates, so 10 years overall. As mentioned above, Microsoft have thrown pre-2018 PCs under a bus with Windows 11, albeit a first (probably?) for Microsoft.

[PotNoodleTech]

They don't stop running, just won't be updated. I have a 12 year old Macbook air that still does what it does just fine. Same as an old Windows computer that doesn't meet the TPM requirements for Windows 11; 10 still runs, just won't be updated past a certain point.

 

So it won't comply with cybersecurity best practice/auditing?

[Gongalong]

Does Intune only support current iOS?

[Roberto]

So it won't comply with cybersecurity best practice/auditing?

 

If you're relying on 7 year old hardware you're already past best practice imo.

[PotNoodleTech]

If you're relying on 7 year old hardware you're already past best practice imo.

 

If the device physically still does the job required then I don't really see what the issue is with continuing to use it. I guess schools in England have not been forced to "make do and mend" like Welsh schools have.

 

It's only when software updates rug is pulled does it actually become a serious issue IMHO.

[paulkerton]

They don't stop running, just won't be updated.

You still have a door frame, there just isn't a door to stop the burglars coming in.

[mavhc]

Not providing 10 years of security updates minimum is just causing ewaste. Even phones are getting 7 years of updates now.

 

Windows 10 will run on a computer from 2000, that's 25 years

[Gongalong]

If the device physically still does the job required then I don't really see what the issue is with continuing to use it. I guess schools in England have not been forced to "make do and mend" like Welsh schools have.

I can tell you it's not unique to Welsh schools - English school here!

 

Our Windows desktops had been doing an amazing job (some at ten years old) but Win 11 has forced our hand on planned replacement, although at 10 years old I was getting concerned anyway.

[Arthur]

How long will the last Intel Macs be supported? macOS Sonoma gives us some hints

 

A year ago, we compiled a model list of Macs spanning over two decades, complete with their launch dates, discontinuation dates, and all the available information about the macOS updates each model received. We were trying to answer two questions: How long can Mac owners reasonably expect to receive software updates when they buy a new computer? And were Intel Macs being dropped more aggressively now that the Apple Silicon transition was in full swing?

 

The answer to the second question was a tentative "yes," and now that we know the official support list for macOS Sonoma, the trendline is clear.

 

Macs introduced between 2009 and 2015 could expect to receive seven or eight years of macOS updates—that is, new major versions with new features, like Ventura or Sonoma—plus another two years of security-only updates that fix vulnerabilities and keep Safari up to date. Macs released in 2016 and 2017 are only receiving about six years' worth of macOS updates, plus another two years of security updates. That's about a two-year drop, compared to most Macs released between 2009 and 2013.

 

The last of the Intel Macs are still on track to be supported for longer than the last PowerPC Macs were in the mid-to-late 2000s, but they're getting fewer years of software update support than any other Macs released in the last 15 years.

 

As we did for Ventura, we'll look at the data and discuss what Apple's motivations might be in the absence of public statements or an update roadmap from the company. We'll also discuss the future of the remaining Intel Macs, which likely only have a year or two of macOS updates to look forward to.

 

The data

Here are some high-level data points before we begin visualizing things. Some of these haven't changed much since last year since we're working with a pretty lengthy timescale (we've tracked every Mac since the original plastic iMac was released in 1998). My spreadsheet remains available here, in read-only form, so you can pore over the data yourself if you want; we have some notes on data collection at the end of last year's piece.

 

• For all Mac models tracked, the average Mac receives about 6.6 years of macOS updates that add new features, plus another two years of security-only updates. 2017's crop of Macs will get about 6.3 years of macOS updates, a little under the historical average.
  
• The average Mac receives updates for about 5.5 years after Apple stops selling it. Buying a Mac toward the end of its life cycle means getting significantly fewer updates.
  
• The three longest-lived Macs are still the mid-2007 15- and 17-inch MacBook Pros, the mid-2010 Mac Pro, and the mid-2007 iMac, which received new macOS updates for around nine years after they were introduced (and security updates for around 11 years).
  
• The shortest-lived Mac is still the late-2008 version of the white MacBook, which received only 2.7 years of new macOS updates and another 3.3 years of security updates from the time it was introduced. (Late PowerPC-era and early Intel-era Macs are all pretty bad by modern standards).
  

 

Continues...

[Roberto]

If the device physically still does the job required then I don't really see what the issue is with continuing to use it. I guess schools in England have not been forced to "make do and mend" like Welsh schools have.

 

It's only when software updates rug is pulled does it actually become a serious issue IMHO.

 

Ah. You were talking about best practice earlier so I assumed we were talking about best practice, not what can be got away with. And if the hardware can't be maintained any more because it's obsolecent, I'd suggest that using it for anything important is not best practice.

[dmj]

Not providing 10 years of security updates minimum is just causing ewaste. Even phones are getting 7 years of updates now.

 

Windows 10 will run on a computer from 2000, that's 25 years

 

I bet the PC it's running on hasn't had a security fix in its firmware for 20 of those years.

[mavhc]

I bet the PC it's running on hasn't had a security fix in its firmware for 20 of those years.

 

Open source! https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/