Vape Detection / Alarm

[Aprice]

So I've ordered a Sharp GP2Y10 sensor £6 ish, which detects particulate (dust) matter and have got it working with an Arduino, same with the SGP30 VOC sensor and a DHT22 for temp / humidity.

The Sharp sensor seems quite sensitive, I'd have thought it would quite easily pick up someone vaping in a cubicle. The school I work in has floor to ceiling cubicles so would probably need sensor hardware in each cubicle.

If the Sharp isn't good enough the next best option appears to be the units with fans to draw in air, I prefer the passive option if possible.

Thinking of using one ethernet node per room and a string of something like Pro Minis on a serial bus talking back to the ethernet device. Main focus is getting the detection right, then to worry about networking and notification options.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Aprice

[TechMonkey]

Bit of a necro but SMF Systems has been mentioned at my place and I wanted to ask @synaesthesia, is that a definite that they are generic Chinese detectors? The article being passed around says they are designed in the UK, just built in China. They are damned cheap though, which worries me slightly.

[Net-Ctrl]

Hi - just to confirm for you @psynegy:

 

Verkada SV21 is the entry level on the new range. It monitors CO2, humidity and temp.

Verkada SV23 is the mid-range. As well as above also monitors air quality, asset protection and vape.

Verkada SV25 is the top tier model- also monitors air, motion and light (as well as above)

 

You get 10 year warranty with all the above. All manufactured in the US. Demo/Trials also available for each one to try out before purchasing. They also run a lot of 1 on 1 sessions on the portfolio so you can find out more about their approach, deployment scenario etc.

[psynegy]

Hi - just to confirm for you @psynegy:

 

Verkada SV21 is the entry level on the new range. It monitors CO2, humidity and temp.

Verkada SV23 is the mid-range. As well as above also monitors air quality, asset protection and vape.

Verkada SV25 is the top tier model- also monitors air, motion and light (as well as above)

 

You get 10 year warranty with all the above. All manufactured in the US. Demo/Trials also available for each one to try out before purchasing. They also run a lot of 1 on 1 sessions on the portfolio so you can find out more about their approach, deployment scenario etc.

Thanks, we have a trial SV23 arriving today hopefully.

 

Verkada don't seem to publish a partner list, any recommended suppliers out there?

[Net-Ctrl]

We are a Verkada partner - so we can assist with the project if you would like us to. All of their work is done through a partner. This is sometimes left to the regional Verkada AM to work with someone they've used before.

 

If you haven't worked/heard of Net-Ctrl - we have been working in EDU for 20 years - our experience extends to Wi-Fi, switching, firewalls, cabling etc so understand the wider network considerations rather than just being someone that can install them.

[FragglePete]

Bit of a necro but SMF Systems has been mentioned at my place and I wanted to ask @synaesthesia, is that a definite that they are generic Chinese detectors? The article being passed around says they are designed in the UK, just built in China. They are damned cheap though, which worries me slightly.

I too, would ask the question @synaesthesia, as one although cheap are the others just damn expensive? It might be worth a punt with one or two to see how they fair? Genuinely interested as SMT are keen to get a solution in here.

 

Pete

[Disease]

Out of interest, who was the trial unit arranged with?

 

Edit: also someone mentioned the new SV23's don't do vape detection? Is that not the case?

 

Edit edit: apparently that was the SV21's...! Ignore me!

 

I filled in the demo form on the Verkada website and they contacted me directly, sent me out a SV23 and a Camera to test.

 

[email protected]

 

The lady that contacted me was Courtney Cochran ([email protected]) arranged a teams meeting with follow ups and sorted out decent pricing with a UK supplier.

[psynegy]

For those considering building their own sensors, the sensor in a Verkada SV23 is an off the shelf SEN54 from Sensirion.

[kennysarmy]

I've been asked to look in to whether these would work on our WiFi (as they are CHEAP!)

 

https://smfsystems.co.uk/support/

 

Just not sure, but probably worth a punt.

[TronXP]

I've been asked to look in to whether these would work on our WiFi (as they are CHEAP!)

 

https://smfsystems.co.uk/support/

 

Just not sure, but probably worth a punt.

 

When I had a look they suggest you turn off wifi 6 to get them to work.... looks like they use only 2.4GHz. Then you need them wired into the mains also. Would make much more sense just to be POE like its competitors.

[Net-Ctrl]

I haven't announced this session yet - should be on here later today/tomorrow- but we're due to run a webinar with Verkada on the 22nd of March that will cover their portfolio, including their vape detection

- registration page is - https://verkada.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_CYFV6j6mR5msVluplXqjLA.

 

We have got their Head of Solutions Engineering running the session which will include a Q+A. All attendees are also sent a YETI coffee cup, which are pretty cool as a freebie.

 

A good opportunity to hear their approach - see how it compares to those others mentioned in this thread - and ask any questions.

[psynegy]

After doing some testing with the SV23, we were not particularly impressed. The sensor only picked up vaping around half of the time, and if we sprayed deodorant, the "vape index" went off the charts for quite a while.

 

Yet to have pricing confirmed, but with the way toilets in schools are going (floor to ceiling cubicles), unless you can cleverly integrate the sensor into your air extraction, you're looking at a sensor per cubicle! A very expensive endeavour indeed. Problem with the sensor in the air system, you wouldn't know which cubicle was responsible.

 

Honestly, the whole thing seems like a bit of a waste of time...

[hyb80]

Meraki have just announced Vape detection on their MT14 sensors https://community.meraki.com/t5/Feature-Announcements/Available-Now-High-Sampling-Mode-for-Vape-Detection/ba-p/191679

 

Thought it was battery powered but actually needs a usb c to ethernet adapter. Still works out even with a 10 year meraki licence, £500 a unit chaper than Verkada.

 

I have a Verkada unit on trial so going to compare the two in a trial.

[Net-Ctrl]

Thanks for post synaesthesia - someone here had noticed there had been a change in the company name and previous web addresses were no longer working and no redirects set-up. Always a little concerning.

 

Posting here just for relevance to the thread - we have a Verkada vape session this Thursday - Verkada won't be for everyone and it's certainly not at the lower end of the market price point for anyone that is interested you can sign up here - https://verkada.zoom.us/webinar/register/3416800349780/WN_pPRAkfJpS8mhMbDKMKlsxA#/registration

 

We will run a Q+A after the session so also an opportunity to pose questions about best practices - approach etc. All attendees will get access to their free trial programme so you can test them out in your own environment. We can also look to align an SE to work with you in configuring the unit and setting parameters for detection.

[Asgard]

I'm being quite careful now as I obviously risk being caught up in some sort of legal action! However I stand by my comments and would love to be proven wrong. However, the fact they have no manufacturing facility and are not registered with companies house as manufacturing any product only wholesale goods is one large red flag. I can not abide people lying and certainly not selling rubbish to schools, especially when they are getting articles written up about them by newspapers and even getting local MPs involved.

 

I do have some pics if anyone is intrigued and will help verify the reality of these products.

So, here is the actual manufacturer: https://aibath.en.alibaba.com/

 

And this is what we have:

Generic casing - not specific for this board.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]68730[/ATTACH]

 

Board

[ATTACH=CONFIG]68731[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]68732[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]68733[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]68734[/ATTACH]

 

If anyone has bought them or testing them, please also check the power supply. The ones supplied with ours were underspecced and/or possibly faulty as they were too hot to touch after just a couple of hours.

 

So …. We have a fair few of the SMF / VapeGuardian ones and I’d describe them as sketchy to say the least - we have turned them off - but left them in so the students think they are operational.

 

False positives all day…. And all night

 

We were told that the automatic air fresheners in the toilets aren’t compatible and we need to swap them - their either too close or too strong ….. and are triggering the sensor.

 

Even in toilet that we pulled the batteries on one.

 

It uses an app called Smart Industry IoT solution thst you get via TestFlight on an iPhone. Connected to a WPA2 network fine (isolated)

 

Customer support after the first few days became non-existent ! Shortly after we started getting hundreds of false positives. Camera on a corridor showed no one entering the toilet but it was going off for a good 30 minutes

Edited April 25, 2023 by Asgard

[kennysarmy]

I'm being quite careful now as I obviously risk being caught up in some sort of legal action! However I stand by my comments and would love to be proven wrong. However, the fact they have no manufacturing facility and are not registered with companies house as manufacturing any product only wholesale goods is one large red flag. I can not abide people lying and certainly not selling rubbish to schools, especially when they are getting articles written up about them by newspapers and even getting local MPs involved.

 

I do have some pics if anyone is intrigued and will help verify the reality of these products.

So, here is the actual manufacturer: https://aibath.en.alibaba.com/

 

And this is what we have:

Generic casing - not specific for this board.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]68730[/ATTACH]

 

Board

[ATTACH=CONFIG]68731[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]68732[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]68733[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]68734[/ATTACH]

 

If anyone has bought them or testing them, please also check the power supply. The ones supplied with ours were underspecced and/or possibly faulty as they were too hot to touch after just a couple of hours.

 

Do you have a link to the Newspaper article?

[synaesthesia]

Right, I've reported my original posts for deletion as I've had an email from SMF Systems/Vapeguardian keen to answer some concerns.

No data is sent to China. All data is apparently kept in the UK, with some anonymous & encrypted air readings do go via the Tuya API.

They confirm the boards are manufactured in China by Airbath. He states they are designed in the UK, however from my own contact with AirBath this actually means they specify what they want here and Airbath make them to order (which they will do for anyone with suitably sized orders).

I don't want to vilify anyone but as I've told them, I have a huge bee in my bonnet about misinformation and I'm keen to kick it out where I can. Marketing is just another word for bovine poop, so there will always be a bit of leeway there but that's another story. I've given some feedback regarding false positives and domains/cross website functionality not being there, and I don't know if their app is now available on the App stores yet. Again, personally if an app isn't on the Google play store or Apple store, then it's not yet trustable. Testpilot isn't meant for any sort of deployment outside testing, and the less said about random APK's the better.

I have suggested transparency - liaising with their actual customer base outside of marketing and the newspaper articles they've been mentioned in (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/vaping-is-causing-chaos-in-school-loos-can-this-gadget-fix-it-6rs7wvn3n and https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11891095/How-purposely-installed-vape-detectors-set-22-TIMES-day-schools.html ) will be a lot better for them.

 

They are apparently working with Southampton University regarding getting the formulas right for detection which sounds interesting. I'd love to see some information regarding this, case studies etc.

[synaesthesia]

After doing some testing with the SV23, we were not particularly impressed. The sensor only picked up vaping around half of the time, and if we sprayed deodorant, the "vape index" went off the charts for quite a while.

 

Yet to have pricing confirmed, but with the way toilets in schools are going (floor to ceiling cubicles), unless you can cleverly integrate the sensor into your air extraction, you're looking at a sensor per cubicle! A very expensive endeavour indeed. Problem with the sensor in the air system, you wouldn't know which cubicle was responsible.

 

Honestly, the whole thing seems like a bit of a waste of time...

 

Looking at the design of the sensor posted above, if they're now also using fans that will falsely keep heavier particulates in the air for longer which seems counter intuitive. Vapour doesn't need to be drawn in, it's just there.

[kennysarmy]

Right, I've reported my original posts for deletion as I've had an email from SMF Systems/Vapeguardian keen to answer some concerns.

No data is sent to China. All data is apparently kept in the UK, with some anonymous & encrypted air readings do go via the Tuya API.

They confirm the boards are manufactured in China by Airbath. He states they are designed in the UK, however from my own contact with AirBath this actually means they specify what they want here and Airbath make them to order (which they will do for anyone with suitably sized orders).

I don't want to vilify anyone but as I've told them, I have a huge bee in my bonnet about misinformation and I'm keen to kick it out where I can. Marketing is just another word for bovine poop, so there will always be a bit of leeway there but that's another story. I've given some feedback regarding false positives and domains/cross website functionality not being there, and I don't know if their app is now available on the App stores yet. Again, personally if an app isn't on the Google play store or Apple store, then it's not yet trustable. Testpilot isn't meant for any sort of deployment outside testing, and the less said about random APK's the better.

I have suggested transparency - liaising with their actual customer base outside of marketing and the newspaper articles they've been mentioned in (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/vaping-is-causing-chaos-in-school-loos-can-this-gadget-fix-it-6rs7wvn3n and https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11891095/How-purposely-installed-vape-detectors-set-22-TIMES-day-schools.html ) will be a lot better for them.

 

They are apparently working with Southampton University regarding getting the formulas right for detection which sounds interesting. I'd love to see some information regarding this, case studies etc.

 

Thanks for the update.

[CarlosFandango]

Hi All,

Has anyone tried the zeptive wireless sensor?

We have trialed the Verkada but as our school is very old POE installation would cost us a fortune on top of the sensor cost.

Many thanks

Carlos

[Net-Ctrl]

For anyone looking at sensors for summer we will shortly be announcing/running a special price promotion through to the end of August with Verkada on their SV range. It offers really good discounts on the Verkada sensor hardware and licensing. For renewals - you would also maintain the discount level on this offer.

 

If you would be interested in getting some pricing - please send me a DM, or email me at [email protected]. This pricing is subject to Deal-Registration. We can also run calls on the solutions etc.

 

Verkada have also recently released a new FW for their sensor with a revised vape algorithm offering better detection/reduced false readings from aerosols etc - https://www.verkada.com/uk/blog/bringing-even-more-actionability-to-verkada-air-quality-monitoring/

 

We also have a recorded webinar on their vape portfolio that is freely available - https://www.net-ctrl.com/verkada-webinar-vape-detection/

[ITGuyNW]

Is there anyone else apart from Verkada doing this sort of thing? Reviews don't seem great with this sort of tech. My SLT are now asking about it all so I have to go back with some info..

[timbo343]

Is there anyone else apart from Verkada doing this sort of thing? Reviews don't seem great with this sort of tech. My SLT are now asking about it all so I have to go back with some info..

I got told by my Millgate account manager there is a company / brand called Halo (https://halodetect.com/) who they have started selling.

[Jaan]

We have Verkada on test at the moment. 2 indoor cams and fish eye cam and vape sensor. Really impressed with it at the mo.

[Net-Ctrl]

We were getting asked lots of questions around vape at the start of the year - and tested a few solutions - we looked at Halo and Verkada in more detail at that time as there wasn't many other solutions available in the UK- since I have also seen Triton, Meraki MT14, SMF (name may have changed)..there may well be more now.

 

We really liked the Verkada solutions because of the integration across sensors - cctv- access control etc. The platform and product looks really smart. They offered 10 year warranty on 48hr replacement which we thought was ideal for EDU. Cloud hosted. 24/7 support. It ticked a lot of boxes. We also were impressed with their dedication to their portfolio with constant improvements and innovations.

 

We have most recently been working with them on pricing - to try and get it right for the UK EDU market -we're currently running a summer promotion on their sensors - a SV23 + 1 year which are heavily discounted(discounts also available on 3,5 and 10-year options)- we're much cheaper than where we were earlier in the year.

 

If anyone is considering sensors/vape detection - we can set-up a demo of the solution. They do much more than vape - like temp, motion, humidity etc - so could be used in other roles - like environmental monitoring in server rooms etc