MPs call for UK ban on two Chinese CCTV firms

[atcoates]

A group of 67 MPs and Lords have called on the government to ban the sale and use of Hikvision and Dahua surveillance equipment in the UK.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-62003253

[Steve101]

For political reasons not cyber security reasons

[elsiegee40]

We are going to leave this news story in place, but please be aware that discussion of politics is banned on EduGeek.

 

Feel free to discuss the (potential) security ramifications and mitigation… just leave the politics out of it.

[Andycat]

We've just ordered some additional cameras etc and our supplier wouldn't offer either of these. Will offer Korean ones though....

[jthompson]

I'd like to ban them for user interface violations. We've had a Dahua system in for a while, and it's a big of a pig to use, and probably will need to be ripped out once IE mode is no longer a safe prospect. When we decided to expand our CCTV system to include more cameras, we opted to go for something other than Dahua. We now have a shiny new Hikvision (!) NVR just installed. Whilst better than the Dahua system, it still relies on having a proprietary exe running on Windows in order to view camera feeds, won't let you paste into the login form (weeelll, who wants to use a password manager, anyway?) and footage downlaods aren't regular browser downloads, no: they end up in %USERPROFILE%\Web\DownloadFiles for some strange reason.

 

\rant

 

Are there any normal, properly modern-browser-friendly (and therefore not reliant on Windows) CCTV vendors that people can recommend?

[MrEprise]

Are there any normal, properly modern-browser-friendly (and therefore not reliant on Windows) CCTV vendors that people can recommend?

 

XVision has been fairly good and we use their kit in our ICT Rooms. Some of their older cameras used to be reliant on IE but the newer stuff works fine even in Linux or on Mac. They're UK based (known as Y3K.)

 

UniFi Protect is fine as long as you're prepared to buy the Dream Machine as the recorder but I did prefer it before they EOL'd UniFi Video as it meant you could set up a cheaper DIY setup. Finding it difficult getting hold of some of their cameras though.

[paulkerton]

57% of secondary schools use Dahua or Hikvision.

 

This may prove to be very costly!

[jthompson]

Particularly if a ban wasn't just a ban on new sales (the wording of the BBC article is a ban on sale and use of their equipment). Interoperability between brands seems to be in quite a crummy state, which really makes any purchasing decisions a headache. I don't know of any off-brand cameras that Dahau and Hikvision NVRs are able to perform motion-detection with, for instance.

[synaesthesia]

They won't be able to put a ban on use, that's more than clear. I don't think the cameras themselves are likely to be an issue - there's very little that are better options, and I don't think anyone would lament the loss of the NVR's in favour of better NVR/storage solutions - most of which will handle all the features the HV NVRs do.

[DrCheese]

XVision has been fairly good and we use their kit in our ICT Rooms. Some of their older cameras used to be reliant on IE but the newer stuff works fine even in Linux or on Mac. They're UK based (known as Y3K.)

 

UniFi Protect is fine as long as you're prepared to buy the Dream Machine as the recorder but I did prefer it before they EOL'd UniFi Video as it meant you could set up a cheaper DIY setup. Finding it difficult getting hold of some of their cameras though.

 

Disagree with UniFi Protect - The cameras aren't ONVIF compatible so you're stuck using Unifi's PVR for them & UniFi have history with randomly discontinuing products. Also the PVR only has a single HDD (Not even raid) so it's utterly useless at scale.

 

 

We use loads of Hik's here (They're just so cheap!) - But we use Avgilion's software as it's just so powerful compared to the Hik Junk NVR that's poorly translated.

[Jobos]

Are there any normal, properly modern-browser-friendly (and therefore not reliant on Windows) CCTV vendors that people can recommend?

 

We have 22 Hikvision cameras feeding into 2 NVRs and if the ban goes through it will make getting replacement cameras a problem. Are there other makes of cameras that are compatible with the Hikvision NVR?

[Andycat]

We use loads of Hik's here (They're just so cheap!) - But we use Avgilion's software as it's just so powerful compared to the Hik Junk NVR that's poorly translated.

 

Same here, Avigilon is backbone, and we use quite a few makes of cameras with it.

[CHiLL]

They are calling for not only the ban of sale, but also banning use of them. We replaced our CCTV system last year with a Dahua system. I hope we wouldn't have to foot the cost of replacing them all again!

[steveg]

If this ban isn't for security reasons then I cannot see any reason to ban their use? If there are ethical or other issues with their manufacture / supply then I can understand banning their sale, but what advantage is there to stopping everyone using ones they already have?

[synaesthesia]

We have 22 Hikvision cameras feeding into 2 NVRs and if the ban goes through it will make getting replacement cameras a problem. Are there other makes of cameras that are compatible with the Hikvision NVR?

 

Any ONVIF compatible camera will work - we have or have had brickcom, unifi and AXIS on them without issue.

[jthompson]

Any ONVIF compatible camera will work - we have or have had brickcom, unifi and AXIS on them without issue.

 

That's interesting. I've tried a few of our non-Hikvision ONVIF compatible cameras with the Hikvision and Dahua NVRs, and whilst I can get a live feed on some of them, motion-detection based recording isn't available, which is a bit of a deal-breaker.

[MrEprise]

Disagree with UniFi Protect - The cameras aren't ONVIF compatible so you're stuck using Unifi's PVR for them & UniFi have history with randomly discontinuing products. Also the PVR only has a single HDD (Not even raid) so it's utterly useless at scale.

 

I can't speak for their G4 cameras but all the G3 ones I've used, while if they aren't ONVIF compatible, they do output a RTSP feed so can be used with software that supports that protocol at least.

Edited July 4, 2022 by MrEprise

[PotNoodleTech]

*looks at hikvision cameras and NVR*

 

.....

 

*looks at the floor and whistles*

[robyholmes]

*looks at hikvision cameras and NVR*

 

.....

 

*looks at the floor and whistles*

 

*Xi Jinping looks at screen, see's @PotNoodleTech*

[3s-gtech]

I used a modern Hikvision system yesterday - I was impressed with its functionality and quality.

 

We're in the process of sorting out a new CCTV system here, and I can't ignore the calls against fitting this kit so I need to gen up on alternatives!

[paulkerton]

We're in the process of sorting out a new CCTV system here, and I can't ignore the calls against fitting this kit so I need to gen up on alternatives!

An crucially, double your budget if you want the same amount of kit!

[PotNoodleTech]

*Xi Jinping looks at screen, see's @PotNoodleTech*

 

What can ya do!!!

 

He/she's already logged into the Cisco kit and Aruba and xx and xx and etc.

 

If you ban Chinese technology you're basically banning the whole of IT.

[3s-gtech]

An crucially, double your budget if you want the same amount of kit!

The Milesight NVRs appear to be around the same price. Also Chinese, also likely to have dodgy links to dodgy people, but not involved in these camps AFAWCS.

[synaesthesia]

Any half sensible people will reject this daft idea. Do those camps also use Windows to administer? Ban Microsoft products from school. Do they search with Google? Same applies. Do Hikvision run those camps? Why are they being targetted for this oddly far fetched reasoning?

[Danthecreator]

it's going to be a headache if they do we mostly use Hikvision cameras as they almost have a camera for everything instead of going to two or three different vendors for more expensive options that do the same thing.