Sound system for a small school hall...

[Koldov]

I know this request is ridiculous even before I post it but...

 

The Headteacher has just asked me to look at a 'sound system' for our hall, the hall isn't massive just average 'Primary School' size.

 

He hasn't given me a budget and he hasn't given me any idea of what he wants this 'sound system' to actually play (do I bother with CDs?), so I guess I am not really looking for a full mixing desk/wireless mic capable/speakers on stands job, but if anyone has had a similar generic request for a small hall, please let me know what you ended up with and why...

[localzuk]

When spec'ing up hall sound, it really depends what the school want to do with it. If its just speakers and an amp to plug a laptop in, there's not much to it.

 

But if they want to do what most do now, and have the ability to run microphones (wired or wireless), it starts complicating it.

 

We're just about to do the hall sound at one of our middle schools. We're going to be putting in speakers, a rackmount amp, a combined rackmount mixer/media player (eg the Cloud MX141M). We have all the XLR boxes all over the stage/hall already too, so if we want to run a performance from the back of the hall instead, we just unpatch that mixer, and patch in the proper mixer we have for that event.

[TwistedHelixis]

I normally source a small local AV company, they will come in and make sure everything is powerful enough for the size and has the features you need.

[simpsonj]

Ata complete guess, would something like this Active PA Speaker set suit your need? Should have enough power and connections. But I would really try and lockdown what they want to achieve first!

[Koldov]

Unfortunately, it's a bit of the usual really.... They don't know what they want, I don't know what they want...

 

The possibility of wireless microphones has now been added into the mix by an excitable teacher who saw us discussing speaker placement in the hall... and 'what about CDs?' has reared its ugly head...

 

EDIT: I think best not get too excited, it's a small school with an equally small budget and (luckily) small ambitions regarding putting on a full production...

 

Is there anyway to source an amp that has lots of potential to have things added to it at later stages (build as you go), Audio and Visual not really being my thing in case you haven't guessed. But something that can run a couple of speakers, with inputs for computers/laptops, iPads, whatever anyone else wants to plug in... and then later can have a small mixer or something to power wireless mics...?

Edited May 26, 2022 by Koldov

[localzuk]

CDs? What is this, the 90s?

[Andycat]

CD's are still a must... the listening exams and Music exams are CD preferred here... visiting Dance folk do CD. We have ability to play most stuff, even if not currently connected (and I still prefer minidisc for shows.....)

[Koldov]

CDs? What is this, the 90s?

 

Yes**

 

Next question...?

 

**No, not really, but if you work in an under funded rural Junior School, it might as well be!

[jthompson]

A good, easy starting point might just be a portable PA system. We've got a couple of these which we've used for running languages exams in rooms that aren't wired for sound. Less that £100 and no installation work involved (although that particular one is perhaps on the small side for a hall). Can run off battery power, too. At least if it turns out that they want a more involved setup, the thing will still be useful for sports days, etc.

[dhicks]

Is there anyway to source an amp that has lots of potential to have things added to it at later stages (build as you go)

 

We use these Busker PA units:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01MRY9KD9

 

I'm sure they used to be way cheaper than that (now £270), around £130 when we purchased them a couple of years ago. Self-contained, internal battery, can be mounted on a standard speaker stand, comes with two wireless mics, can accept input from a couple of mics / instruments and a stereo connection from a PC / phone. Also acts as a bluetooth device for connecting phones and similar. Also has twin phono outputs for connecting up other devices - buy two and, with a suitable cable, you can link them together, or put the output into pretty much any standard powered speaker. We use these both internally (we have one sat in each hall space) and for outside for things like sports day. They aren't the most robust of devices - most of ours now have broken handles, bent wireless ariels and the phono output sockets are damaged, but devices with more robust (XLR) outputs seem to be rather more expensive.

[msi_school]

I would suggest you get an AV contractor in to do a quote, they will know the kit and the best questions to ask about usage. You will then have a better idea of what you want even if you go for a self install inthe end.

[Koldov]

Honestly I'm tempted to just go for a consumer amp unit (we already have a couple of large (ish) speakers that I could cable to)...

 

https://www.richersounds.com/aiwa-amu-120bt-black.html

 

Change my mind...

[Koldov]

Just need to work out what these bad boys are rated at now somehow (1/4" mono jack connection)...

 

 

...although they are currently powered by a Yamaha AX-470 which is rated at:

 

Power output: 65 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)

[Andrew_C]

It REALLY isn't a case of looking at the rating and getting an amp to match the number. A 65W Yam amp is probably enough for most uses in a primary, unless there's lots of "dance" lessons in there.

[Koldov]

Yeah, it's plenty loud enough, just very, very old...

 

I think the Headteacher just wants something a bit more modern so he can connect his phone via Bluetooth, or a USB for mp3s, plus the hall computer etc.

 

The current setup just has a pair of classroom speakers at the front setup to the hall computer and those bigger speakers at the back with the amp.

 

Unfortunately, the front setup is a bit underpowered and starting to crackle/drop out and requires everyone to plug various things in with adapters and splitters and for louder stuff like a disco or prom you have to use the setup at the back and as the old Yamaha is too old for USB/Bluetooth so requires someone to have their phone plugged in to it.

 

So, I guess the idea is to get the bigger speakers to the front with the amp and have everything go through that.

[Andrew_C]

Terrible idea to have the speakers at the back! A wired connection will almost always be a better solution than Bluetooth or other wireless connection.

[XiJ]

If you’re in the north of England I always recommend elementary Uk. All our schools have been happy with them.

 

I used to source some sound stuff myself - but hated it and was by no means an expert.

[Chris_Cook]

The power for audio systems is logarithmic, so to double the volume you need 10 times the power. Plus many cheaper systems spec the peak power rather than continuous.

 

You also lose half the volume if you double the distance from the speakers.

 

I'd also recommend finding a local AV installer/hire company to recommend what to get for the venue.

 

Most venues end up getting 3 systems - the cheap one, the really expensive one, and then the one quoted by a sound engineer. I'd always recommend skipping straight to the third.

 

A sound engineer can make recommendations on the room acoustics and the suitability of the system for the room. Not every speaker will sound good/clear in a space. And physical positioning of speakers (and mics) will have much more impact on the overall sound quality than which brand etc.

 

I'd also recommend overspecing the system in terms of power if non-experts are using it. Its better to tell someone off for playing too loud, than telling them off because they blew it up the day before a critical event.

 

If you have a working system, then you might be able to find a bluetooth receiver, or an amp/mixer with it built in.

[PotNoodleTech]

You can't go wrong with something like Wharfedale Titan 12 passive PA speakers plugged into a budget PA amp (Crown / Behringer/ Sampson) and run off a small decent quality mixing Desk (Allen and Heath 8 or 12 input, or Behringer if the budget is really tight) use a bog standard HIFI CD player as the input. Bonus with a small mixing desk is you can bring other things in (PC/Microphones etc) too in the future.

 

Wall mount the speakers wire it all in hey presto.

 

If you literally have no clue then may be better to get an AV company in, but they usually just sell you whatever is highest on the profit margin so take it with a pinch of salt unless your getting multiple quotes etc.

[mikes]

Yeah, it's plenty loud enough, just very, very old...

 

I think the Headteacher just wants something a bit more modern so he can connect his phone via Bluetooth, or a USB for mp3s, plus the hall computer etc.

 

The current setup just has a pair of classroom speakers at the front setup to the hall computer and those bigger speakers at the back with the amp.

 

Unfortunately, the front setup is a bit underpowered and starting to crackle/drop out and requires everyone to plug various things in with adapters and splitters and for louder stuff like a disco or prom you have to use the setup at the back and as the old Yamaha is too old for USB/Bluetooth so requires someone to have their phone plugged in to it.

 

So, I guess the idea is to get the bigger speakers to the front with the amp and have everything go through that.

 

Guess it's not just me who'll randomly be asked for a bizzare quote that I know nothing about (e.g. moving flashing lights in the hall, or a "school app for the phone") only to get what I think they need and hear nothing again?

For our main hall a company came in and installed 4 XLR speakers, a mixer and amplifier, it wasn't cheap but they do full on productions here (comp school), only problem is out old system had some kind of pre-amp "phantom power" box that the laptop plugged into, which then plugged into the main mixer. This meant the main volume could be low so there is no hiss. But our new system doesn't have this; in order to connect a laptop we must turn the main volume up loud which hisses, and buzzes when the laptop is unplugged. Tried checking the mixer for a built-in version of this "phantom power" box but couldn't find one, it's all computerised though so I guess I missed something ?

Edited July 24, 2022 by mikes

[mikeprice]

My last school had a pretty decent system based on a desktop wird into an amp - and some speakers in the hall

It was mainly put in by some professionals - I wasn;t there at the time so I don;t know who did it

 

 

But the reason for posting is that I was driven mad by staff member, people who hired the hall and visiting speakers pulling all the cables out to get their laptops, dvd players etc working

 

plus the need to wireless microphone which cropped up

 

 

I ended up witha small cheap mixer which could take several inputs - one was permanently plugged into the PC, one for the wireless microphones and one was connecetd to a cable clipped in an obvious plce for use with other people's equipment

 

This made a huge difference to the number of time I had to dash down to the hall for 'an emergency'

 

didn't cost much and if I was there we could even mix different inputs at the same time

[dhicks]

But our new system doesn't have this; in order to connect a laptop we must turn the main volume up loud which hisses, and buzzes when the laptop is unplugged. Tried checking the mixer for a built-in version of this "phantom power" box but couldn't find one, it's all computerised though so I guess I missed something ?

 

Could you possibly mean a phantom-powered DI box?:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-Ultra-DI-DI100-DI-Box/dp/B000CCSWPQ/ref=sr_1_7?crid=2PNL51AARN8NF

 

I'm guessing you have a laptop plugged into your sound system via a 3.5mm stereo cable. You'll need suitible adaptor cables to plug into the DI box from your laptop.

 

You could, of course, add a USB sound interface between your computer and the sound system - the Focusrite Scarlett Solo is what everyone seems to like:

 

https://focusrite.com/en/audio-interface/scarlett/scarlett-solo

 

Although I find the Beringer UM2 to be perfectly usable and a bit more affordable:

 

https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0AVV

[Koldov]

I ended up witha small cheap mixer which could take several inputs - one was permanently plugged into the PC, one for the wireless microphones and one was connecetd to a cable clipped in an obvious plce for use with other people's equipment

 

I am now looking at a consumer unit amp due to the 'need' for the Headmaster to play tunes from his phone via Bluetooth... Speakers are big passive jobs... high on the wall so no chance to get specs (there's nothing visible from the ground - not even a make). Site have chickened out of moving them (or it's too much work) so they stay in the middle of the hall!

 

https://www.richersounds.com/sony-str-dh190.html?nosto=nosto-plp-hi-fi-deals

 

https://www.richersounds.com/yamaha-dab-bluetooth-stereo-receiver.html

 

I'm presuming this will negate the need for a mixer and I'll only have to plug the relevant cables into the rear inputs for (1x) desktop and (1x) laptop use.

 

The purchase is imminent so please someone shout if I have got it wrong...

[Norphy]

Can you not get a simple Bluetooth dongle with a 3.5mm jack on it and plug it into a mixer? Something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/UGREEN-Bluetooth-Receiver-and-Transmitter/dp/B08TQSH636/ or this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B081GGB53R/

 

The range isn't going to be great but that's Bluetooth for you.

[dhicks]

I am now looking at a consumer unit amp due to the 'need' for the Headmaster to play tunes from his phone via Bluetooth...

 

Depending on space available, we've bought several of these:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01MRY9KD9

 

Floor-standing (not rack mount), can be stood on a standard speaker mount, portable, includes battery, can take input from 3.5mm jack and Bluetooth, output can be sent into larger sound system, has two integrated wireless mics. We're finding they look a bit beaten up after 5 years or so of being hauled around the school, and the batteries now don't hold a usable charge, but if you want a handy all-in-one speaker / mixer unit plus a couple of wireless mics they're reasonably affordable. You should also be able to get replacement wireless mics for when teachers / children loose / eat them.