Gas/Electricity Price Increases

[Roberto]

I ran them for a couple of years and was happy with them. I chose them specifically because of the geofencing facility as there were four of us with very random schedules. I believe Nest now has that facility, but both require a subscription. As an early adopter there was no ongoing charge for the geofencing facility.

 

The main downside was that none of the programming is held locally - it's all cloud based. That means that if the system loses internet connectivity it stays in the previous state. I was always slightly concerned that I'd come home to an empty oil tank because it had stayed on indefinitely.

 

With regards to the cloud programming, that feels like a serious potential flaw for a house control system tbh. I've had good experience in that regard with Drayton Wiser which seems to be less well known here in the UK - https://wiser.draytoncontrols.co.uk/. Their controller sits next to the boiler and continues to run the scheduled programming if your internet is offline. You can't change that programming via the app (but you could override a room to turn the radiator on or off from the Wiser TRV) when there is no internet but at least you know it's going to be sticking to what you presumably thought was a sensible routine at the time you set it!

[elsiegee40]

There’s another energy saving session tomorrow (December 12th) 5-7pm. We are opted in through Octopus we earned £5.05 in the last session which was 1 hour

[mikeprice]

There’s another energy saving session tomorrow (December 12th) 5-7pm. We are opted in through Octopus we earned £5.05 in the last session which was 1 hour

 

Funny - I am registered with 2 schemes and neither of them have told me about it yet

 

I will keep an eye on my emails tomorrow

[BOOT]

Would be nice if there was such a scheme working where I live, umpteen power cuts this weekend.

[HarryMonkey]

Has anyone had any experience with these? are they worth installing other than for "lazy" value (Alexa turn the heating down cos I can't be bothered to get off the sofa).

 

https://www.tado.com/gb-en/smart-thermostat-overview

 

Set this up at the weekend and so far so good. I bought the wrong one initially (wired) so had to go back and get it changed, but it was straightforward to set up. I just wish er indoors would stop overriding the schedule and then not setting it back again!!

[Andrew_C]

I just wish er indoors would stop overriding the schedule and then not setting it back again!!

Program in a few downs through the day. So if someone boosts and forgets, the system will reduce temp in a few hours anyway. AND a very late one, for when kids get home from the pub and turn it all on again!

[CHiLL]

I've had to resort to asking my landlord to move the location of the termostat because it's practically useless. I'm in an upstairs maisonette and the thermostat is located on the wall above the stairs. While it is the coldest part of the house, the heat from upstairs barely gets to it. I've tried micro-adjusting the thermostat, but when it reaches the target low temperature and the boiler kicks in...the upstairs gets far too hot, well before the termostat registers any temperature difference and uses a lot of gas. I've had to resort to going back to the 3 set timed periods on the boiler, which isn't ideal.

[HarryMonkey]

I've had to resort to asking my landlord to move the location of the termostat because it's practically useless. I'm in an upstairs maisonette and the thermostat is located on the wall above the stairs. While it is the coldest part of the house, the heat from upstairs barely gets to it. I've tried micro-adjusting the thermostat, but when it reaches the target low temperature and the boiler kicks in...the upstairs gets far too hot, well before the termostat registers any temperature difference and uses a lot of gas. I've had to resort to going back to the 3 set timed periods on the boiler, which isn't ideal.

 

Maybe a Tado or something similar would be of benefit to you.

[Koldov]

There's a lot of confusion with all the information being blasted out now about lowering boiler flow temperatures, turning down radiators and placement of thermostats...

 

It will mean some people are using more energy to heat less effectively and rooms with the thermostat in (and rooms with radiators turned down) never reaching the temperature needed to turn the boiler off (or taking much longer to reach a decent temperature)!

 

In the pre-modern boiler times I used to have an hour in the morning and maybe 2 or 3 hours in the evening, then when we had the new boiler fitted I used to have the thermostat in the living room (actually quite near the radiator) so when that hit target it stopped heating, but we've also always suffered with terrible condensation (no, we don't dry clothes on radiators/boil water on the stove/shower with the door open)...

 

So much so that we suffered with damp/mold. So, we've now been very strongly advised to keep all parts of the house at a minimum 18c at all times (I used let it drop well below this) and I've recently had radiators moved to all external walls (how we found out condensation was forming under floor and on walls).

 

So the heating is on permanently and costing me quite a lot (great time to find all this out) and the research on permanent low level or blasting for an hour or two is hotly debated, but for the fabric of the building low level constant heating seems best (just not for my bank balance)...

[LeMarchand]

I was going to ask what people's thoughts on this were.

 

Looking at the boiler usage, it seems to take an age to heat the house after basically being off all night. Tried leaving it at 18 last night as an experiment, but the results are inconclusive so far. Next week I'll be at home, so I may try 18 at night 19 during the day so that I'm there to see how it goes rather than potentially leaving Mme and Mlle LeMarchand to shiver.

[elsiegee40]

We noticed last winter that, if we went out for the evening (out for 5 hours or so), the cost of reheating our house when we got back exceeded the saving made by having the heating off.

 

We have ours set to 15 overnight as, if it drops below that, it takes too long to get it back up to 19C and Mr gee40 freezes in his office space.

[foofighterjim]

I decreased my boiler flow temperature from 60 to 50 during the spring, it seemed to have worked quite nicely. However, with the temperatures dropping so much and with my house being of a 1920's solid brick construction it just doesn't maintain the heat, I've had to increase the flow back up to 55 and set a minimum daytime temperature of 15c just so the boiler can reach its desired temperature during the evening. Not ideal but there isn't much I can do about it at the moment.

[Theblacksheep]

I'm using the cheap electrical night rate to 'over heat' the house, living room at 23.

 

Then after that I drop it to 20 and let a smart electric heater trickle maintain temp so the main heating doesn't kick in.

 

I find keeping the temp more balanced more cost effective as others have noticed, too much of a drop means it's on for such a long time

[CHiLL]

Maybe a Tado or something similar would be of benefit to you.

While it would if I owned the property, but unfortunately I'm at the mercy of my landlord, who'll likely go for the cheapest option available. He'll probably just move the existing one somewhere else, which I'm not at all fussed about...as long as it can actually be used to reliably control the heating. I'm also not sure how these smart thermostats would work for when it comes to moving out/new tenants, as they'd need access to the app and I'd also still be able to control it from my app.

[mavhc]

The higher internal temp is above external temp, the faster heat is lost.

 

The question is heat loss vs efficiency of heating, and a side question of damp etc.

 

Lowering boiler temp for a condensing boiler means it works more efficiently, but slower.

 

The other day I left the heating on 24/7, at 15C above outside temp, it used 4kW. So 266W/degree C.

 

It's approx linear, so to keep the house at 18C when it's 0 outside would require adding 266*18, 4.8kW of heat, or 115kWh/day. At 8p/kwh of gas, that's £9.20.

 

If I turn off the heating then the house will cool, initially losing 4kW, and going down logarithmically until my house is 0C.

 

The lower the temp of my house, the slower it will lose heat, therefore turning off the heating is better. (Or more specifically, letting it cool down only enough to avoid damp problems, the setback temperature https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/programmable-thermostats )

[HarryMonkey]

While it would if I owned the property, but unfortunately I'm at the mercy of my landlord, who'll likely go for the cheapest option available. He'll probably just move the existing one somewhere else, which I'm not at all fussed about...as long as it can actually be used to reliably control the heating. I'm also not sure how these smart thermostats would work for when it comes to moving out/new tenants, as they'd need access to the app and I'd also still be able to control it from my app.

 

I'm in rented too but have left the existing stat in place and swapped the wiring to the Tado. I will swap it all back when we move.

[Ditto]

Funny - I am registered with 2 schemes and neither of them have told me about it yet

 

I will keep an eye on my emails tomorrow

I can resist no longer... is that one for each shed? Oh silly me, that'll be 3 schemes nowadays

[mikeprice]

I can resist no longer... is that one for each shed? Oh silly me, that'll be 3 schemes nowadays

 

No - silly person

 

it would need 4 schemes

one for each shed and one for the house

 

I don;t actually LIVE in a shed you know!!!

 

 

On another note - our usage today will be massive

Had some workmen round this morning to put flooring in the loft ( NO IT IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE EXTRA SHED!!!!)

 

Unfortunately they knocked a copper pipe that was sort of floating on top of the insulation - and note properly secured anywhere

at which point a plastic connector came apart - thus revealing the fact that the pipe was full of water and connected to the mains

 

Fun ensued - especially when I discovered that, at some point, thes stop cock has jammed shut!!

 

 

anyway - - after it has all been sorted out by a combination of luck and brute force - followed by some proper plumbers fixing it properly - we ended up with a loft over a lot of wet plasterboard forming the upstairs ceiling - and a lot of wet insulation

 

so we have had the loft hatch open most of the day, the radiators all on full and a fan heater in the loft

 

The Good News is that when we pay out next energy bill then EDF will be able to afford to build that new Nuclear Power station the government wants!!!!

 

 

If there is an energy saving day this time next week we should be quids in!!!

[AB_IT]

What are your guys thoughts on these, thought about running one outside and using some ducting pushing fresh hot air into the house through a hole in the wall... Red Diesel is only around 90p per litre.

 

[jmak]

What are your guys thoughts on these, thought about running one outside and using some ducting pushing fresh hot air into the house through a hole in the wall... Red Diesel is only around 90p per litre.

 

The headline says most of it: free but illegal. Buying red diesel if you're not authorised is breaking tax law. Using red diesel for purposes other than intended is breaking tax law. That'd be enough to put me off.

 

It's also pretty filthy - think about all the emissions kit there is on a diesel car nowadays - pretty sure that'd be like going back 30 years.

 

Having said that, it'd probably run on heating oil (kerosene) which is a similar price. It'd still be filthy, but probably not much worse than an oil fired boiler.

 

How would you plan on getting the hot air into your house?

[3s-gtech]

The noise of those diesel heaters is pretty unreal. Close neighbours will hate you.

[mavhc]

Sad that people are considering burning oil and wood.

 

Top tip of the day: block up your windows with insulation, not like there's any light coming in anyway. You kept all those monitor boxes full of air trapping packaging, right?

[AB_IT]

The headline says most of it: free but illegal. Buying red diesel if you're not authorised is breaking tax law. Using red diesel for purposes other than intended is breaking tax law. That'd be enough to put me off.

 

It's also pretty filthy - think about all the emissions kit there is on a diesel car nowadays - pretty sure that'd be like going back 30 years.

 

Having said that, it'd probably run on heating oil (kerosene) which is a similar price. It'd still be filthy, but probably not much worse than an oil fired boiler.

 

How would you plan on getting the hot air into your house?

I didn't think burning Red Diesel for heat was illegal, loads of people used to do it by me when I live out in the country-side. I thought it was only illegal if you filled your car up with it? Keroscene is also sold at a Petrol Station I know of so could get hold of that I guess? The thing he said was illegal in the video was burning used motor oil as you need a license, but didn't say anything about red diesel?

 

I know it's filthy but I'm really struggling to afford heating. Living on my own in a 2 bed house, it's currently 9 degrees. With Christmas coming up too it's been very difficult financially so I've got to cut back on heating.

 

Hot air would be through metal ducting hose, through a hole in the brick and then into my living room.

 

The noise of those diesel heaters is pretty unreal. Close neighbours will hate you.

Ah, I didn't think about the noise, I was expecting them to be quietish.

 

I used to have one of these that I burnt keroscene in, it was really good and there was hardly any smell when I live out in the country but the ex wife took that and they're like £300 to buy upfront. https://www.dry-it-out.com/warm/heaters/inverter-5006-3kw-liquid-fuel-heater-free-fuel.html

[jmak]

I didn't think burning Red Diesel for heat was illegal, loads of people used to do it by me when I live out in the country-side. I thought it was only illegal if you filled your car up with it? Keroscene is also sold at a Petrol Station I know of so could get hold of that I guess? The thing he said was illegal in the video was burning used motor oil as you need a license, but didn't say anything about red diesel?

 

I know it's filthy but I'm really struggling to afford heating. Living on my own in a 2 bed house, it's currently 9 degrees. With Christmas coming up too it's been very difficult financially so I've got to cut back on heating.

 

Hot air would be through metal ducting hose, through a hole in the brick and then into my living room.

 

 

Ah, I didn't think about the noise, I was expecting them to be quietish.

 

I used to have one of these that I burnt keroscene in, it was really good and there was hardly any smell when I live out in the country but the ex wife took that and they're like £300 to buy upfront. https://www.dry-it-out.com/warm/heaters/inverter-5006-3kw-liquid-fuel-heater-free-fuel.html

My mistake - I'd always been told that, but having checked you're allowed to use it for domestic heating. I used to have oil fired central heating and was warned off. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Everywhere I've looked says heating oil is even cheaper (and would work in a diesel car, but that's definitely not allowed). I don't know how you get hold of it if you don't have a tank they deliver it to.

[AB_IT]

My mistake - I'd always been told that, but having checked you're allowed to use it for domestic heating. I used to have oil fired central heating and was warned off. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Everywhere I've looked says heating oil is even cheaper (and would work in a diesel car, but that's definitely not allowed). I don't know how you get hold of it if you don't have a tank they deliver it to.

 

Little petrol station that's independent where I used to live literally sells them both from the pump. It frustrating though as its a 45 minute drive to get there and is very rural.

 

Seems difficult to find others that are closer to where I am now which is a town.