Home electrical problems

[mikeprice]

Hi all

 

over the last few days we have had an electrician round adding a load of new sockets, changing single sockets to double - and changing the old fuse board with expensive, hard-to-get glass fuses - to a modern board with contact breakers etc

 

OK - so far so good - and anyway why in the name of $deity did anyone build a house in the 1980s with only 1 single socket in most bedrooms???

 

now the bad bit

 

since he changed the mainboard the power hasbeen tripping out a couple of times a day - he had a look at several areas he had changed and it looked to be OK - but as it was intermittent.........

 

anyway - it tripped twice yesterday about 30 minutes apart and then was fine all day

 

and this morning it has tripped 9 times so far

 

I have identified the circuit that is tripping - it is an RCD that trips - the actual contact breaker are OK - and all the downstairs sockets are on it - plus the room lights

I have eliinated the lights (and he didn;t change them anyway) - so it is the sockets

I have unplugged everything non-essential - i.e. everything except the TV, Virgin box and Internet router

and it still tripped

so I move all the above 3 onto an extension cable plugged in elsewhere - still tripped

 

so the question is - has anyone who knows about electrical stuff any info about boards that have breakers and RCDs - and is there anything to look for - given I will be getting the bloke back tomorrow and want to give him as much info as possible

 

 

Thanks

 

Mike

 

p.s. if I don;t reply to something - I may have no internet!!!

[mikeprice]

Update - may have worked it out

 

It looks like it is the new double socket (used to be single) near where I sit with my laptop - since I unplugged my laptop we have had no problems

so it is either my laptop or the new socket

 

Laptop is currently working OK on a different socket - so if it keep working OK and the power doesn't trip then it is the socket

 

I think

[3s-gtech]

Could be a number of things, from the live and neutral being reversed when wiring the socket, to excessive earth leakage. Laptop supllies are normally double insulated and the earth isn’t always connected as a result. The transformer may have blown inside, but that usually only causes it to trip once. Test it on another socket.

 

I’d suspect that you either have a faulty wall plate or there’s something like a break in the ring there, where a wire may have come out.

[bald_pig]

Sounds like that house is wired very strangely! I'd grab a socket tester to make sure the socket is wired correctly:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kewtech-KEWCHECK103-Wiring-Socket-Tester/dp/B004HU2MI2

 

If the laptop is fine in another socket, then there's an issue with that socket.

[mukz]

Plug something else in and see if it trips. It should do as if the laptop is working elsewhere.

If thats the case get the sparky back in to check the socket, re check his wiring which I’m sure you would also be able to check

[jmak]

When we had our consumer unit updated last year the electrical spent a long time sorting out earth leakage. Some of it was worn/corroded outlets (sockets and switches) some of it was damp getting into the cables - they needed re-terminating. The new consumer units are *much*more sensitive than your old fuse box would have been.

 

With checking for faulty wiring with a socket tester as suggested above, but kit to test for earth leakage is very expensive and sorting it out is best left too a professional. You'd work out out eventually through applying logic, but much easier to leave it to someone familiar with what needs doing.

[djskytv]

If you have a split load board with 2x RCD main switches could be many things !!

Lighting circuits are a nightmare when updating the consumer boards !!

[southhamster]

Can you get your laptop adapter PAT tested just in case...

[MatthewL]

New boards are very sensitive, will be an issue with the wiring to that socket, could even be damaged if he hasn't replaced the old wiring.

[djskytv]

Do the electrics trip in the day or night?

[m25man]

FWIW, when my son rewired his extension and fitted all new sockets (he’s 18th Edition and Part P C&G) he too started having random circuit breaker issues!

We eventually traced it to an LAP (Screwfix) dual Outlet with Dual USB ports....

The USB ports had the issue.

Swapped the suspect outlet back to a standard one and it ran fine!

 

My other son also began suffering MCB/RCD issues but his issue was eventually traced to a Sky installer that had fitted Sat dish years ago without a drip loop or sealing the cable route!

Hidden behind a hedge water had been running down the cable and eventually through the wall into a back box causing a damp problem!

Hole sealed, dried it out no more tripping.

 

Just a couple of real world gems to be aware of!

[mikeprice]

OK problem stopped - possibly solved

 

turned out to be my laptop power cable - HP type with only of those 'clover leaf' 3 pin connector to the transformed - but some miracle I had a spare and everything has been fine since I swapped them

 

evidence was as follows

most of yesterday my laptop was switched off, unplugged and sitting on the dining room table

 

no problems

 

so this morning I plugged it in and started it up - a few minutes later the power tripped

I shutdown the laptop and unplugged the transformer from the laptop - reset the RCD

a minute later (ish) it tripped again

unplugged the transformer from the power cable - power cable still plugged in - reset

tripped again

unplugged the power cable (and tied a knot in it for identification)

 

It has not bee running OK for several hours

 

 

OK - bang to rights - no problem - it was the cable

 

 

BUT - the remaining worries

 

Why has it been OK for the past 10 or so years - OK RCDs and contact breakers are more sensitive - and therefore safer - so that is explainable

When the board was changed everything was OK for a few hours - and I was using my laptop during that time - and it was discharged so the power was being used??

Then, when it was reset, it was still OK for an hours or so

Then the electrician redid a few sockets before he left - and it tripped once - but was then OK all evening and night with the laptop still plugged in

Then it reset several times but then again lasted fine all evening and night - with the laptop plugged in

Then yesterday it would trip after 10-20 minutes after a reset

and now it trips within a few minutes or seconds if it is plugged in

 

What has made it go so much worse????

 

I would guess I will probablyu never know - but if anyone has any ideas I would be gratefull

 

TIA

 

Mike

[jthompson]

If your power cable is damaged, it might be that it's more likely to short when flexed a certain way or in sat in certain positions. I'm sure we've all experienced headphone leads that crackle unless held in just the right way. Similar kind of thing, perhaps.

 

Also, with regard to houses being built in the 80's with only one or two plug sockets per room: Possibly NSFW: DailyMash: Couple pretending their home is designed around feng shui, not plug sockets

[mikeprice]

If your power cable is damaged, it might be that it's more likely to short when flexed a certain way or in sat in certain positions. I'm sure we've all experienced headphone leads that crackle unless held in just the right way. Similar kind of thing, perhaps.

 

Also, with regard to houses being built in the 80's with only one or two plug sockets per room: Possibly NSFW: DailyMash: Couple pretending their home is designed around feng shui, not plug sockets

 

It is a little known fact that I am a Black Belt in the martial art version of Feng Shui

 

That is the art of defence where you use the attacker's own momentum to make him fall over the furniture

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry - haven;t used that line for years - it was getting dusty

[PotNoodleTech]

To be honest having all your lights and sockets on one RCD is going to be problematic.

 

Nowadays when they build a house they separate things out much more, even my 1 bed flat has a separate RCD for the upstairs and one for downstairs, and then upstairs is separated into a lights MCB a plugs MCB and the same for downstairs.

 

Thing is you can't get modern without a total rewire.

 

What peeps have aid above is right though - newer kit is much more sensitive to earth leakage, and newer RCDs actually have much lower earth leakage limits than the older ones did so even just replacing old board with new can cause problems even when nothing else is changed!

[mikeprice]

Thanks - useful info

 

since my previous posts the system has not tripped anything for over 2 full days - so I think the problem is sorted!

 

the thing that is still puzzling me is why the problem went from being something that happened every few hours - but went all evening and night - and then became something that happens within 1 or 2 minutes - or less

all this while the laptop was relatively static

 

However, there is a possible extra fact. The laptop uses one of those 'cloverleaf' 3 way connectors - and there was a recall of some of these cables in 2010/2012 as there was a possibility of then causing a fire. There is little info on WHY they could cause a fire - but presumably due to a possible short - which would also cause the RCD to trip

so that is probably the cause.

At the end of the day I have no idea where the cable originated. For the last 5+ years I have been pretty much a full time IT Tech and normally working on my own. As a result my study at home and my office in work became a kinda single entity - tools, devices and 'general stuff' could be in either depending on what I was working on at the time. Hence the chances of a specific cable being in the place it was originally bought for were random

I had a lot of trouble sorting out which stuff went where when I left!!!!

and all the laptops at my last place used the same cables - and I often brought on home as there was some software that was only licensed on one specific laptop

 

so - the fault is solved - and the culprit is clear - but a mystery still remains

[Andrew_C]

Bear in mind - and RCD or RCBO will have a rating for leakage, normally in houses of 30mA. This is the current imbalance between live and neutral that MUST trip the breaker. It may well trip at a lower level.

 

In your laptop PSU there will be filters to keep nasty harmonics off the supply, and these, by design, leak to earth. Your first cable may be faulty in that the earth resistance is high, it will still work, but may not cause tripping.