Pointers/Advice needed on how change our email provison

[LeMarchand]

Before I started at this school, back in the days when everyone was rushing to get their VLE up and running, they signed up with one provider who initially ran the VLE, their email and their website.

 

Since then, the website is something they no longer provide and the only thing that sees any use is the email, which doesn't seem great value at £1.5k/yr. Currently using O365 tied to the school's .co.uk domain which, AFAIK is included in our VL agreement.

 

So... we basically want to get rid of the VLE provider and just use O365 for email/calendar/storage etc. The question is how to do this without losing current emails (and preferably calendars/drives)? Would there be extra costs? Would it be better to go "Google" and, if so, how would we transfer emails across? Ideally we'd like to keep the same domain.

[ZeroHour]

So the domain is linked to o365 right now?

Do you have control of o365?

Who is the registrar of the domain and do you have control of the domain?

[LeMarchand]

So the domain is linked to o365 right now?

Do you have control of o365?

Who is the registrar of the domain and do you have control of the domain?

 

Seems to be. Our website and email addresses are schoolname.co.uk

 

I have an admin logon and can do all the normal admin stuff.

 

A whois shows fasthosts.co.uk; the office are currently checking if we are paying them directly.

[ZeroHour]

What do they provide regarding email for that £1.5K a year?

If the o365 is owned by you as part of your VL and you turn out to have control of the domain I am struggling to see what they provide.

[PotNoodleTech]

Given that Offdice365 is completely free to schools you are being ripped off.

 

For sure go down the road of making sure the domain name and the office365 tenancy is in your school name and that you have full admin access and then dump the company.

[LeMarchand]

What do they provide regarding email for that £1.5K a year?

If the o365 is owned by you as part of your VL and you turn out to have control of the domain I am struggling to see what they provide.

 

This is what I've been saying for years!

 

Unfortunately one member of SMT has been determined to stick with them because their platform can do loads of great things. This is true, but no-one uses it (even said member of SMT hardly uses it). They harvest a load of data to set up Tutor groups etc that I'm pretty sure I could do from SIMS, and their "School Calendar" was only fixed after months of problems when I spent 30 minutes to set up an alternative one in O365.

 

I just need to find out what (if anything) apart from their Sharepoint stuff would be affected if we tell them we're cancelling.

[LeMarchand]

For sure go down the road of making sure the domain name and the office365 tenancy is in your school name and that you have full admin access and then dump the company.

 

That's the bit I'm not sure how to do.

[ZeroHour]

This is what I've been saying for years!

 

Unfortunately one member of SMT has been determined to stick with them because their platform can do loads of great things. This is true, but no-one uses it (even said member of SMT hardly uses it). They harvest a load of data to set up Tutor groups etc that I'm pretty sure I could do from SIMS, and their "School Calendar" was only fixed after months of problems when I spent 30 minutes to set up an alternative one in O365.

 

I just need to find out what (if anything) apart from their Sharepoint stuff would be affected if we tell them we're cancelling.

 

Yeah seems a bit crazy.

Firstly make sure you have full control of the domain and that they dont have subaccount access before doing anything. This will help prevent you being held hostage to manage your dns records.

[ZeroHour]

That's the bit I'm not sure how to do.

 

Presume you have tennant admin?

Is anything listed in https://portal.office.com/adminportal/home#/partners ?

[LeMarchand]

Presume you have tennant admin?

Is anything listed in https://portal.office.com/adminportal/home#/partners ?

 

Nothing there.

 

[djm968]

I would also find all users that are Global Admins.

[LeMarchand]

I would also find all users that are Global Admins.

.

Everyone listed as "Global Admin" is a member of staff (most of whom should probably be "User Management Admins", but one step at a time). The person listed as THE Global Admin is the above-mentioned member of SMT, using a now-defunct email address (the fqdn sch.uk style one). The other admin roles all have no members. I suspect that the 3rd party must be using THE GA login to effect changes.

[LeMarchand]

Heard back from fasthosts. Unfortunately the domain is registered by the 3rd party VLE supplier.

 

Assuming they aren't going to be helpful, is there a way to force them to hand over the keys - or would we be better off starting from scratch if we need to go down that route?

[djm968]

Certainly don't need to start again, worst case scenario, you can just register another domain and add this to your existing Office 365 tenant. Third party should play ball and if not a strong worded letter from the School usually does the trick!

 

Bottom line is, your School owns the domain, the third party just registered for you.

Edited December 6, 2018 by djm968

[chaplic]

Before I started at this school, back in the days when everyone was rushing to get their VLE up and running, they signed up with one provider who initially ran the VLE, their email and their website.

 

Since then, the website is something they no longer provide and the only thing that sees any use is the email, which doesn't seem great value at £1.5k/yr. Currently using O365 tied to the school's .co.uk domain which, AFAIK is included in our VL agreement.

 

So... we basically want to get rid of the VLE provider and just use O365 for email/calendar/storage etc. The question is how to do this without losing current emails (and preferably calendars/drives)? Would there be extra costs? Would it be better to go "Google" and, if so, how would we transfer emails across? Ideally we'd like to keep the same domain.

I expect no extra costs and your microsoft license covers it. You will be able to take data across, how slick you want it and need it to be is the challenge.

 

How do you access email just now? is it via 'pop' or 'imap' and how many accounts are we talking about?

 

I migrated a school with a similar setup in the following way - highly manual but as low numbers saved the hassle of migration tools

 

 

1) got my schools email domain added to o365 (you do this as admin). Assuming you're using outlook you need to setup autodiscover too and also update/ create SPF

2) Set the school email domain as 'internal relay' in office365

3) Created a mailbox in o365

4) Got the teacher hooked up to it

5) imported their old email manually (was using outlook)

6) deleted their mailbox on the old system and setup a forwarding address to the [email protected] address

7) Repeat 3-6 for all teachers

8) Repoint MX record for the school at office365

9) Remove config on old system

 

 

If you are doing big numbers, you can automate this as o365 can migrate data from IMAP mailboxes

[LeMarchand]

How do you access email just now? is it via 'pop' or 'imap' and how many accounts are we talking about?

 

Mainly via a browser apart from a few keen ones who use their phones/imap. Probably only around 50 accounts that need to be worried about (and a few hundred kids ones).

 

That said, we're not in a great negotiating position and may just have to bite the bullet this year and plan to jump ship next.

[mikkydoos]

@LeMarchand

 

I did this ages ago just by setting up imap on each account and uploading a .csv to (the new) O365 with the account details. Manual also but this was only about 60 mailboxes. Took a few days.

 

At the time. if I had seen what Google Docs was to become I would have avoided O365. I've been in schools where they have adopted Google 100% and its flippin' awesome compared with MS.

 

Google classroom is WAY better than sharepoint.... and MS got rid of their classroom app... and calendars are an ultra pain to manage too.

[LeMarchand]

@LeMarchand

 

I did this ages ago just by setting up imap on each account and uploading a .csv to (the new) O365 with the account details. Manual also but this was only about 60 mailboxes. Took a few days.

 

At the time. if I had seen what Google Docs was to become I would have avoided O365. I've been in schools where they have adopted Google 100% and its flippin' awesome compared with MS.

 

Google classroom is WAY better than sharepoint.... and MS got rid of their classroom app... and calendars are an ultra pain to manage too.

 

IF we decide to completely go for a new domain, I'd probably suggest Google (and I'm not a fan of theirs!) as it has everything the school needs. At the moment though they're probably going to stick with the familiar.

[chaplic]

Could you just setup o365 as new and let people go into the old webmail to retreive old emails, telling them they have 6 months to forward old ones?

[LeMarchand]

Could you just setup o365 as new and let people go into the old webmail to retreive old emails, telling them they have 6 months to forward old ones?

 

That sounds like a plan - would probably fit in with the timeline, too.

[mikkydoos]

IF we decide to completely go for a new domain, I'd probably suggest Google (and I'm not a fan of theirs!) as it has everything the school needs. At the moment though they're probably going to stick with the familiar.

 

You don't need a new domain. You can use (in office 365's case, and if you're using a web client) the xxxxxx.onmicrosoft domain on all accounts you IMAP until you're ready to change the MX record of your other domain.

 

Its a bit messy but it works. With IMAP set up mail should appear from the originating tennant and replicate to the new one... then you can just use mail forwarding until you're ready to change or a final IMAP sync again.

 

You'll need to be able to change several DNS records on your domain name too so I'd say move that to another host.

 

 

(Edited for clarity)

Edited December 7, 2018 by mikkydoos

[djm968]

So... we basically want to get rid of the VLE provider and just use O365 for email/calendar/storage etc. The question is how to do this without losing current emails (and preferably calendars/drives)? Would there be extra costs? Would it be better to go "Google" and, if so, how would we transfer emails across? Ideally we'd like to keep the same domain.

 

A letter signed by the Headteacher on school headed paper stating that you wish to terminate the contract with them and transfer the domain to your preferred domain hosting company, will usually do the trick. Office 365 is free for Education and you own the domain.

[jmak]

Make sure you check your notice period with the current supplier. Some of them are staggeringly long.

[LeMarchand]

You don't need a new domain. You can use (in office 365's case, and if you're using a web client) the xxxxxx.onmicrosoft domain on all accounts you IMAP until you're ready to change the MX record of your other domain.

 

Its a bit messy but it works. With IMAP set up mail should appear from the originating tennant and replicate to the new one... then you can just use mail forwarding until you're ready to change or a final IMAP sync again.

 

You'll need to be able to change several DNS records on your domain name too so I'd say move that to another host.

 

 

(Edited for clarity)

 

A letter signed by the Headteacher on school headed paper stating that you wish to terminate the contract with them and transfer the domain to your preferred domain hosting company, will usually do the trick. Office 365 is free for Education and you own the domain.

 

Make sure you check your notice period with the current supplier. Some of them are staggeringly long.

 

Thanks for all the advice. Problem is that the current supplier appears to be the owner of the schoolname.co.uk domain, and could - I guess - decide to be difficult about things.

[mikkydoos]

Problem is that the current supplier appears to be the owner of the schoolname.co.uk domain.

 

 

They have no right to it.

 

You can get in touch with http://www.nominet.uk who will force them to transfer it.

 

You don't have to worry there.