Next step as our projectors begin to fail and require replacement

[jmak]

If you don't need interactivity, you don't need to spend anything like £2.5k.

 

The purchase cost would be much closer and the reduced power consumption, lack of need to clean filters, lack of need to replace bulbs etc will help to bring TCO even closer. When you add in reduced deterioration in image quality as the bulb ages, you might start to have a case.

[Rob_D]

That's fair enough, but I'd be wanting to qualify things a bit more.

For instance, what advantages does having a resolution above XGA actually bring (as in, what can you do with a higher res that can't be done with XGA)? If an XGA display is thrown large enough for people at the back of the room to read, something like PowerPoint, or a video, is not really any [functionally] different. I'll grant you that having a more accurate touch input, without ever needing to do any projector alignment routines, is nice, but is it enabling anything categorically different?

 

I'm not just making points at people, I'm genuinely interested in whether there are categorical differences that we're simply not buying into by sticking with traditional projectors. Hardly any interactive board use here (only in Maths and LS). Not having to install separate speakers systems alongside projectors would be nice. Do people use speakers in these screens for delivering audio?

 

I assume you're duplicating your display between the teacher's monitor and the projector?

Have none of your staff asked for bigger monitors? What happens when you get newer HD monitors? and the image looks all stretched?

I mean that would be my biggest argument to move from XGA to HD (regardless of whether you use a projector or screen).

 

With regards to sound, we use soundbars above the boards, but they take their input from the board, so having one cable between the PC and board makes for simpler cabling.

 

Also the boards are a lot brighter (actual brightness of the image on the wall) than a projector can realistically be.

 

If people don't use the boards interactively, then maybe look at going for non-interactive display screens.

[jthompson]

Teachers have laptops here. Displays are cloned by default, but staff can choose a different topology if they want. Most still use cloned, though.

 

Brightness is our most common complaint with projectors, but replacing with a newer projector always gives a 'good enough' brightness.

[CalmBlueOcean]

We just installed a handful of non-interactive displays. SMART 2075 (75" funnily enough!). About £1400 including bracket.

We'll see how we go over the next year or so with these. Haven't really got the money to be rolling them out school-wide though probably, even if we'd want to. Just for key areas for now.

Nice and large enough to be seen clearly from the back of the class.

In-built speakers are a bit boxy though. I think that's just because they're effectively mounted facing the wall, so you're hearing the sound reflected off the wall behind.

[TomHD]

'good enough' brightness.

 

This goes back to my iPhone vs other phones comment. Sure it's good enough but could be better. I don't think there is an argument for projectors vs IFPs in classrooms in terms of usability, IFPs will win out every time. Of course the cost argument is the one we are having now but I think if your school can afford it the choice is obvious. If not then the argument stops being about what technology is better but rather which one is cheaper.

[Katy]

This goes back to my iPhone vs other phones comment. Sure it's good enough but could be better. I don't think there is an argument for projectors vs IFPs in classrooms in terms of usability, IFPs will win out every time. Of course the cost argument is the one we are having now but I think if your school can afford it the choice is obvious. If not then the argument stops being about what technology is better but rather which one is cheaper.

But at the moment in 99% of schools you'll have two choices..

 

a) "good enough" brightness that you can afford to put everywhere

b) shiny IFP with really great brightness, clear image you can see from anywhere in the room in a few classrooms, and the others with 10 year old projectors where you have to teach with the lights off to see (as you spent the money on the couple of classrooms with IFP).

 

Shame really as you just end up stuck in a cycle of replacing like for like.

[CHiLL]

We've gone down the Casio LED projector route. 5 year warranty and they cost around £500. Generally cheaper than buying a new bulb/projector every 12-24 months. We did consider going down the TV route, but the cost offset is just too large. If we build a new classroom or get a portacabin, then yeah, we'd get a TV. But when the mount and smartboard are already in the room, the Casio is the cheaper alternative.

[synaesthesia]

Until you realise they really aren't as good as originally made out and the 5 year warranty is near worthless (I could be wrong about newer models, the first couple of generations are utter turd)

[CHiLL]

Until you realise they really aren't as good as originally made out and the 5 year warranty is near worthless (I could be wrong about newer models, the first couple of generations are utter turd)

I'm approaching the fourth year of some Casio's (think they were XJ-M130's) that I installed in my first year, so I can't complain as of yet! We're currently installing V10X or V10XJs, depending on the throw distance.

[TomHD]

But at the moment in 99% of schools you'll have two choices..

 

a) "good enough" brightness that you can afford to put everywhere

b) shiny IFP with really great brightness, clear image you can see from anywhere in the room in a few classrooms, and the others with 10 year old projectors where you have to teach with the lights off to see (as you spent the money on the couple of classrooms with IFP).

 

Shame really as you just end up stuck in a cycle of replacing like for like.

 

Break the cycle then. Having just spent lunch with 3 teachers, I asked them how they think our IFPs have impacted their day to day and the biggest thing for them was reliability. I probed them into what their idea of reliability was and they all said the alignment and brightness was the biggest improvement. They all agreed that they would never want to work with projectors/smart boards again and that if they were applying for a new job that what tech in their new classroom would be a deciding factor.

 

As I've said, this argument shouldn't have been "what tech is better" but rather "whats the best we can afford"

Edited October 15, 2018 by TomHD

[DrCheese]

It's kinda hard to break the cycle when you don't have the money to break the cycle in the first place...

 

I would love to put IFP's in every room. I just don't have the cash

[TomHD]

When I proposed IFPs I was told there was no money so I asked around some suppliers to see if I could borrow one for a bit, I forget what company but I got a few offers to have one on loan for a month. I put this in the computing curriculum coordinator's classroom and a month later the BM "found" some money for our first 5. Now I'm not saying this will work for you but may be worth a shot

[PotNoodleTech]

We've gone down the Casio LED projector route. 5 year warranty and they cost around £500. Generally cheaper than buying a new bulb/projector every 12-24 months. We did consider going down the TV route, but the cost offset is just too large. If we build a new classroom or get a portacabin, then yeah, we'd get a TV. But when the mount and smartboard are already in the room, the Casio is the cheaper alternative.

 

Yeh that's exactly what we've done too.

[christhetech]

Picture quality, usability, etc. aside, how are they paying for themselves? We don't use interactive boards here, so the economics of it are perhaps a bit different.

 

A vanilla, XGA projector will last about that long, with maybe one or two replacement lamps. That's about £500-£600 total, with maybe another £500 of power across 8 years (400W for 5 hours per school day). We'd struggle to sell SLT on £2k-£3k screens for 100 rooms.

 

They use less power than a conventional Board & projector set-up.

They are more reliable.

There is no changing of lamps. This is even more important when you have a few teachers who could never quite get the hang of shutting a projector down correctly and would cause the lamp to blow out prematurely. Nobody would ever admit to this, and they all seemed to fail to realise the cost of replacing lamps. It's not just the cost of purchasing the replacement lamp, but also the lost productivity when the board is out of action whilst awaiting somebody (me) to go across and replace it, and the time that it would take out of my day whilst I could have been attending to other IT issues around the school.

The image qualty is far superior to a projector, and there is no fiddling around with focussing the image so that it is just right on the board.

Inbuilt speakers on the screens tend to be reasonable enough in quality to reduce the requirement for external speakers. We still have soundbars, but I'm sure that we could have managed without them.

 

The latest Promethean screens have a removable OPS unit, so if they are rolled out across the whole school (we don't do this BTW, as we are not 100% Promethean across the whole school), you could give each teacher an OPS, rather than a laptop which they can take from lesson to lesson and use with the screen to deliver lessons without the need for any other hardware.

 

So overall, just a much neater and convenient solution all round, with very little effort to set up and maintain.

[SamanthaD]

Also no shadow puppets as people walk in front of the board. Update your risk assessments for classrooms to include blindness by looking direct into a projector lamp - lots of new screens because of H&S??

[jthompson]

I think it comes down to our lack of need for interactive boards. If interactive is needed, than an IFP seems like a different enough proposition to warrant a higher spend (no shadow and better accuracy being chief advantages?).

 

Without the need for interactive, IFPs are simply nicer looking displays, but far more expensive (since no IWB is being purchased). The extra image quality and brightness, whilst nice, don't actually bring anything significantly new to warrant the spend, imho. PowerPoint and videos don't suffer for not being HD.

 

If we were needing to replace/install IWBs, however, then I think IFPs would get a look in.

[denzal2k4]

Have created a poll to gauge Interactivity use, see if its even needed anymore http://www.edugeek.net/forums/av-multimedia-related/200477-projectors-interactive-screens-today-poll.html#post1711188

[HTCPCP]

What you need to look at is the following - If you need to replace the board as well as the projector - IFP is the way to go - it costs a small amount more upfront, but removes the maintenance costs, and uses far less power. They can do more too, with most also having android built in etc, so you can just use it without a machine.

 

Just the projector - Just get yourself an Epson EB series projector (do they still do the 3 year lamp warranty for edu customers?)

 

If you do want to look at rolling out a few boards - find a couple of departments who will actually make use of the boards (no point in people just using them like smartboards if you want to get the money given to you to be able to roll them out) - and get them to see what they can do. If you can do that, it's surprising how much money schools can magically 'find' for something...

[localzuk]

I would definitely suggest looking at the total cost of ownership for these devices, and not just the purchase price.

 

An interactive projector may seem like a cheap cost at the moment (NEC NP-UM301WG as an example at about a grand a pop). But you're going to need replacement lamps, plus periodic dusting etc... Compared to, say, a SMART MX265 which comes in at around £1850 each. No maintenance. No lamps. Just slap it on the wall and you're done really!

 

The TCO is now on the interactive TV's side really.

 

Also, take into account the software your school uses. Do you use SMART Notebook? Want to continue to use it with a different brand of board? You'll be paying about 7x as much per year per teacher if you don't have SMART hardware (£21 a year for an SLS license, per teacher, for SMART hardware, or about £150 per year on non-SMART hardware - based on prices I got recently for 4 year licenses for 11 teachers).

 

Finally, whilst projector images can be larger, take into account clarity - projector image clarity is poor in comparison to an interactive TV. So, whilst the image may not be as big, the image is far easier to make out for pupils.

[FishCustard]

But at the moment in 99% of schools you'll have two choices..

 

a) "good enough" brightness that you can afford to put everywhere

b) shiny IFP with really great brightness, clear image you can see from anywhere in the room in a few classrooms, and the others with 10 year old projectors where you have to teach with the lights off to see (as you spent the money on the couple of classrooms with IFP).

 

Shame really as you just end up stuck in a cycle of replacing like for like.

 

Or you convince the LA to shell out for all-new IT for your new build, and then negotiate a good enough price on IFPs that you can afford to put them in all of the classrooms.

 

No, I don't know how we got approval for that either.

[Katy]

Or you convince the LA to shell out for all-new IT for your new build, and then negotiate a good enough price on IFPs that you can afford to put them in all of the classrooms.

 

No, I don't know how we got approval for that either.

 

Ah. Our equivalent would be sticking (cost of IPF * 80) / (pupil count) onto everybody's fees and hoping they cough up.

[jahbulon]

What TVs are you buying? Thanks.

[Bev]

We are using Hisense 65in tvs, either linked to a PC with HDMI or AppleTV and iPad.

 

 

The only issue so far is that you can't freeze the screen, so I need to train some staff how to use them in 'dual monitor' mode.

[jahbulon]

We are using Hisense 65in tvs, either linked to a PC with HDMI or AppleTV and iPad.

 

 

The only issue so far is that you can't freeze the screen, so I need to train some staff how to use them in 'dual monitor' mode.

 

Yeah, that is such a key requirement for teaching staff.

 

We're hoping to do the same if we need to.

 

That is a very nice TV! Not sure if we're able to do the same but thanks for feedback