Do I really need to upgrade my switches?

[BKGarry]

Long story shortened with this one.

 

BSF School - Although BSF ICT Contract has been scrapped for years.

 

Currently CISCO switches throughout, quite a lot are 10/100 switches to most ports (most of them are not in use) and then Gig switches to Wireless, admin staff (the only 16 PCs we have in the school) with a 1Gbps fibre backbone.

 

Server have been replaced with HyperV Hosts which have a teamed 4Gbps connection to the core switch.

 

My backbone utilisation never really peaks over 20%, most of the time they are around the 7% mark.

 

With that in mind, do I need to upgrade, the other local BSF schools scrapped their Cisco equipment and gone with HP and upped their backbones and server connections to 10Gbps but since we are not really utilising what we have, do I need to do it?

 

At the moment I am part way through replacing the wireless network (currently a Meru network with AP320s) to the Unifi AC Pro access points and that is making a different to all of our clients (everyone is wireless except the admin staff and VOIP phones)

 

It is that weird one, but is there any point in rushing a change of switches?

[localzuk]

I only replace switches for a couple of reasons:

 

End of warranty support (which isn't an issue for HPE)

Capacity/speed issues.

New services being implemented that require newer tech/higher capacity etc...

 

If your switches are still in warranty, aren't seeing any speed issues and don't plan on rolling out heavy new services, then I can't see any reason to upgrade personally.

 

We still run Procurve 2650s at this school. 10/100 with 1Gb uplinks. 10 years old now and still going strong. Capacity issues just don't exist.

[BKGarry]

Exactly what I was thinking, the only thing is there are not warranty service agreements and under BSF it was more "cost effective" to not have maintenance on stuff and just have a couple of spares kicking around, which of course never came into the schools after the contract was pulled.

 

That is the only thing that is bugging me, but I have looked and I need 6 48 port POE switches, a 16 port core and one 24 port POE to replace the lot, which isn't too bad.

[zag]

As long as you have Gbit switches to the AC wireless then you should be fine.

[BKGarry]

Yes i do :-)

 

I really didn't want to push for this financial year, but popped the upgrade in next years capital plan, as the Unifi equipment actually seems to be very good value for money

[GuyJD]

Sounds like you and I got the same BSF deal BKGarry, I'm in the same boat with Cisco Catalyst 3560 switches as my backbone switches linked via OM2 with gigabit switches for wireless and other devices.

 

In an ideal world I'd like to swap them all out for a 10Gb backbone but it's something I've put in the budget forecast for the past 2 years and never been given the funding to do it.

[FN-GM]

One thing to consider is reliability, in theory the older they are the less reliable. You could just have some spares ready to swap out.

[caffrey]

I'm swapping out my old switches just for POE as we are moving to VOIP in the future, other than that the old Netgear we had were fine (10 year old ish)

[AJWhite1970]

I replaced my old HP Procurve 2510-G's for Unifi in the summer for a couple of reasons. The management of the 2510-g's was very clunky (the interface, not mine...) and we were starting to look at taking the backbone up to 10Gb while replacing some old OM1 fibre as part of building works

 

For me, the change to Unifi while probably not tangible to the end users has meant I now have a wealth of management info as to what is doing what where and with the kit a fraction of the cost of other branded kit I was lucky enough to replace the entire site over the summer.

 

If you are coming over again next month you are welcome to have a closer look at the switches and management console

Andrew

[BKGarry]

Sounds like you and I got the same BSF deal BKGarry, I'm in the same boat with Cisco Catalyst 3560 switches as my backbone switches linked via OM2 with gigabit switches for wireless and other devices.

 

In an ideal world I'd like to swap them all out for a 10Gb backbone but it's something I've put in the budget forecast for the past 2 years and never been given the funding to do it.

 

Probably the same install team, as you are SE London and I am NW Kent

[burgemaster]

I only replace switches for a couple of reasons:

 

End of warranty support (which isn't an issue for HPE)

Capacity/speed issues.

New services being implemented that require newer tech/higher capacity etc...

 

If your switches are still in warranty, aren't seeing any speed issues and don't plan on rolling out heavy new services, then I can't see any reason to upgrade personally.

 

We still run Procurve 2650s at this school. 10/100 with 1Gb uplinks. 10 years old now and still going strong. Capacity issues just don't exist.

 

same here, running many 2650/2626`s.. no capacity issues at all.

BUT, we are looking to replace with 1920`s mainly for the added POE.

 

Has anyone else got 1920`s? they are half the price of the equivalent 2530 range. ?

[localzuk]

same here, running many 2650/2626`s.. no capacity issues at all.

BUT, we are looking to replace with 1920`s mainly for the added POE.

Has anyone else got 1920`s? they are half the price of the equivalent 2530 range. ?

We chose the 2530 range for a school we recently upgraded. The 1920 was rejected as it isn't a fully managed switched.

[burgemaster]

Weve got a few 1920`s here already and your right they dont compare to the CLi of the older switches.

But how often do they need to be configured vs double the cost. I dont suppose there were other reasons why they were dismissed for the 2530 range please?

PS. I think all the 2530`s are now EOL anyhow.

[markwilfan]

I'd prefer unifi switches over 1920 hp. Can't afford hp kit anymore and unifi has come to the rescue

[McChikenhanger]

Unify is great for switches and Wi-Fi for a good value compared to everybody else. One of the other reasons for upgrading will be backups. As your network utilisation will shoot up while they are running. But if they can finish during the night without anyone noticing then you are ok. Also once you move to voip get something that allows you to configure vlans quickly. I think cisco and hp deal with them slightly different, so be weary of mixing them on the network.

[Katy]

We've got a mix of approx 30 1910/1920/1920S edge switches, mixture of 48 port gigabit and 24 port gigabit PoE, we've found them perfectly adequate (providing you don't want to do anything in the CLI). You can still do config through the web interface. I also found the Unifi switches more expensive than the 1920S range, at least for a 48 port gigabit (non-PoE) when I looked yesterday.

(We use a 5406 for the core and each switch rack has its 1910/1920/1920S connecting into a 2530, which in turn has a 10gig link to the core switch)

[markwilfan]

I only have 3 cabs with 10g switches so the unifi 48 switch with sfp+ ports is saving me money. Love the central management and stats too. They work fine mixed with other brands even with vlans. That's why we have iso standards

[markwilfan]

I only have 3 cabs with 10g switches so the unifi 48 switch with sfp+ ports is saving me money. Love the central management and stats too. They work fine mixed with other brands even with vlans. That's why we have iso standards

Should say 3 cabs currently with 10g switches. I have around 25 cabs in total

[CraigM]

I've slowly been replacing our edge HP 2610's to newer models with POE on board, as well as having 10GB SFP+ slots - this means the 2530 or 2540 series. The 2610's are fabulous switches, but the Java based interface is making them very unpleasant to configure when the need arises - CLI works of course, but sometimes it's nice to use the web interface to see things.

 

I've got one D-Link 52 port that was given to us by our local government. It's servicable enough and the web interface isn't a complete mess, but I'm still planning to remove it shortly and replace it with a spare 2610 to make my life easier config wise.

[Davit2005]

same here, running many 2650/2626`s.. no capacity issues at all.

BUT, we are looking to replace with 1920`s mainly for the added POE.

 

Has anyone else got 1920`s? they are half the price of the equivalent 2530 range. ?

 

I have 3 1920's at home, they are comware based CLI rather than the ProVision, web GUI is different than HP (if you use it, I try not to), to get into the CLI you have to know the hidden password which can be found on the internet as well as the admin credentials you have set.

 

The 1920's 24G non-PoE are fanless and don't use a lot of wattage , we have 50 or so 2530's 48 port PoE+ 10/100 at work and they are great.

[Priscilla110]

I see no need for buying new switches. The old ones can still work fine. But upgrading to a PoE switch can also be a good idea and will benefit you in the long term since you've some wireless equipment to be connected.

[AlanD]

L

Currently CISCO switches throughout, quite a lot are 10/100 switches to most ports (most of them are not in use) and then Gig switches to Wireless, admin staff (the only 16 PCs we have in the school) with a 1Gbps fibre backbone.

 

Server have been replaced with HyperV Hosts which have a teamed 4Gbps connection to the core switch.

 

My backbone utilisation never really peaks over 20%, most of the time they are around the 7% mark.

 

?

 

I find that most clients boot faster, logon etc with a 1Gb connection to desktop...as it’s rare for a whole room to boot to logon at exactly the same time....

 

I’d split a single core switch to 2 switches in a stack and use teamed/ LAG connections to edge switches...splitting the server team between them. This would allow a core switch to fail..and all the edge switches to continue working...and give you some overhead in capacity ready for when you get that 1Gb internet connection.

 

Doesn’t surprise me backbone is 20% max as unless you gave loads of SSD storage even getting data out of a SAN can struggle to fill a single 1Gb link.

[BKGarry]

I find that most clients boot faster, logon etc with a 1Gb connection to desktop.

 

That'll make my 16 PC users more happy then ;-)

 

The rest of my clients (and I mean a good 1,100 if not slightly more) are all wireless, so that is what I have been sorting out first.

[AlanD]

1100 wireless clients....Oh! Is it too late to tell you that I would have strongly discouraged that.....wireless and laptops are not a suitable replacement for computer suites....

 

...but perhaps they are tablets/BYOD/Chrome book stuff- so perhaps all will be well.....but if you are hoping to get multiple sets or laptops to work - possibly in neighbouring classrooms (does each student have one?)....then this can be a really difficult problem - wirelessly speaking....

 

If they are laptops taken out of a cabinet - then laptops need to be booted BEFORE the start of the day...so that WSUS, virus updates etc and GPOs all deploy fully before a student gets their hand on one...because that will take a load of bandwidth away at the start any lesson otherwise. If they are students own devices - STRONGLY encourage them to switch on and logon as early as possible - and not to wait until the laptops are required.

 

Even if these clients have "ac" wireless ...I'm guessing nobody bothered looking at the type of wireless card...and guess they are 1x1 with a speed of 433Mb/s. And even if you have acw2 MuMIMO or even 2x2 stream devices you are only going to get 20% more in practice...not the higher figures you see in all the advertising blurb... So in reality...by the time you take into account that this is UDP speed not TCP ....and that client desnisty prevents you using wide channels...you are talking a little over 100Mb/s in real world - wired data terms. And ...this is 100Mb/s to ALL of those clients in a room - not to EACH of them. User experience is not going to tbe great.

 

No changes to switches is going to solve this.

 

Of course if you clients are not "ac"...but "n"...and the access points are out in the corridor so you don't get any of those higher spatial stream datarates...and if the same access points covers more than one room..then ....time to see management and tell them they have badly advised and its not going to work without a lot more investment...in both infrastructure and the clients.

[BKGarry]

@AlanD

 

This has been like this for just over 7 Years, and yes were were an N network, but I have been upgrading to AC.

 

Most of the cards are 2x2 cards and already AC compatible, there are about 200 clients that are bgn only at 2.4ghz.

 

These are mostly full windows logons with a splattering of chromebooks and iPads, we just do not have the space to facilitate ICT suites. It is working for us, it has been a long post BSF process but it is working.