Put young children on DNA list, urge police

[Geoff]

As if I didn't have enough to do already...

 

Primary school children should be eligible for the DNA database if they exhibit behaviour indicating they may become criminals in later life, according to Britain's most senior police forensics expert.

 

Gary Pugh, director of forensic sciences at Scotland Yard and the new DNA spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), said a debate was needed on how far Britain should go in identifying potential offenders, given that some experts believe it is possible to identify future offending traits in children as young as five.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/mar/16/youthjustice.children

[Joanne]

ah yes, my nabaztag rudely read this out very loud last night as I was trying to get to sleep.

 

I think it's a good thing... teach the little B@5t@rd$!!!

 

heheh....

[contink]

Good grief... why don't they just do DNA swabs on birth of everyone for pete's sake.

 

I wouldn't be so anti-DNA database storage if it weren't for the fact that it involves the government, computers and the usual plethora of idiots trying to run/abuse both. Show me a secure database system that cannot be hacked, abused and is completely fool proof from all stages including data entry to searches and I'll happily provide my DNA, along with proof that pigs fly in formation. Give me strength...

 

Irony? what irony?

[budgester]

And lets also get em all RFID implated at the same time.

 

Has anyone been watching Last Enemy, for a good perspective on the whole information database stuff.

[StewartKnight]

Is Linux packaged with Doom.... I hadn't noticed if it is!

[Geoff]

Is Linux packaged with Doom.... I hadn't noticed if it is!

 

apt-get install lxdoom

[hank_freid]

Hi,

I check this site as you given. This is very Awesome information about young children on DNA.

[FN-GM]

If they could keep the data safe, I would agree with taking everyone’s DNA. If you have got nothing to hide what will be the problem? It will reduce time in catching criminals such as Soham murders. The police will catch more people who commit crime thus making our country a safer place. It could even possibly reduce crime, people may think again.

[Andrew_C]

If they could keep the data safe, I would agree with taking everyone’s DNA. If you have got nothing to hide what will be the problem?

Sort of... But what happens when having a genetic predisposition to green eyes becomes an offence? Or being of Jewish/Muslim/French descent?

 

Couldn't happen again? Yugoslavia or Rwanda recent enough for you?

Edited April 5, 2008 by Andrew_C
typo

[kmount]

Given the government can't look after a couple of CDs, I'd hate to think what they could do with my DNA.

[FN-GM]

Yes i know what you mean, thats why i said if they could keep them safe. What was the outcome of that?

[torledo]

If they could keep the data safe, I would agree with taking everyone’s DNA. If you have got nothing to hide what will be the problem? It will reduce time in catching criminals such as Soham murders. The police will catch more people who commit crime thus making our country a safer place. It could even possibly reduce crime, people may think again.

 

Sounds like Jacqui Smith has assumed you're online identity...

 

The whole argument about having nothing do hide doesn't hold up under scrutiny - plenty of cases of innocent people being implicated in a crime based on dna record mixups. Don't forget our police force are very busy in populating the dna database. We have a very high percentage of the population on the database. 1 out of 20 people is already on the dbase compared to 1 out of 200 in the US.

 

It's an issue of looking at the organizations in charge and they're record on infringing on our personal freedoms in the name of security and solving crimes.

 

Don't forget a lot of these police officials support crackpot ideas like national id cards, extension of the current 28 days detension for questioning of terror suspects when neither is necessary. Same with compulsary dna swabs.

 

They should actually focus on sharing information between regional police forces, and the failure to provide the necessary information to the relevant agencies, which were exposed following the soham murderers.

[jcollings]

Sounds like Jacqui Smith has assumed you're online identity...

 

The whole argument about having nothing do hide doesn't hold up under scrutiny - plenty of cases of innocent people being implicated in a crime based on dna record mixups.

 

Don't forget a lot of these police officials support crackpot ideas like national id cards, extension of the current 28 days detension for questioning of terror suspects when neither is necessary. Same with compulsary dna swabs.

 

 

Yes and plenty of innocent people convicted before DNA so what does it matter?

 

As for ID cards - so what if you had to carry one - makes no difference except to criminals.

 

The "personal freedoms" I'd like to see are things like being able to walk down the street unaccosted, the right to park my car without it getting nicked/vandalised etc, the right to not get burgled - anything the police can do to help with this would be good - if having a dna database helps them catch criminals quicker so be it. I'm with Zak on this - it's only a problem if you have something to hide!

Edited April 5, 2008 by jcollings

[jcollings]

Sort of... But what happens when having a genetic predisposition to green eyes becomes an offence? Or being of Jewish/Muslim/French descent?

 

Couldn't happen again? Yugoslavia or Rwanda recent enough for you?

 

That could happen with or without DNA databses!

[localzuk]

That could happen with or without DNA databses!

 

But why give them another tool to abuse?

[jcollings]

But why give them another tool to abuse?

 

Because I believe that it will do more good than harm. I think the police do an exceptional and outstanding job in this country on the whole and if they need my DNA to make that job a little easier then I don't mind.

[witch]

Well I do!

As a perfectly law abiding citizen of this country I have every right to walk past a policeman with him/her having absolutely no idea of who I am.

DNA testing is all very well but I believe that those who have reason to would find some way to get around it (hacking or whatever), and like ID cards there is NO evidence to show that crime rates would fall.

As for targeting children - sounds like Minority Report to me - this would be presuming that people are 'bad' for ever.

Many many people do silly things when they are young and grow up to be law abiding citizens.

This is just governments making it look as if they are doing something when they need to tackle the actual crimes and the reasons for them happening

[FN-GM]

I also have to agree with the ID cards situation. If they do introduce it i bet people who work in schools will be one of the first to have them.

[jcollings]

Well I do!

As a perfectly law abiding citizen of this country I have every right to walk past a policeman with him/her having absolutely no idea of who I am.

 

And how would carrying an ID card or having a DNA database give them an idea of who you are. You'd still have the above situation. If they have grounds to stop you they can still make you prove your ID now.

 

Law abiding people will still be able to carry on as normal.

[FN-GM]

although you maybe law abiding how can others tell that you are?

[jcollings]

Well I do!

As for targeting children - sounds like Minority Report to me - this would be presuming that people are 'bad' for ever.

Many many people do silly things when they are young and grow up to be law abiding citizens.

This is just governments making it look as if they are doing something when they need to tackle the actual crimes and the reasons for them happening

 

And being on a dna database makes no difference to this. All the dna database does is allow tracking down of criminals easier. If a young person does something wrong now and is convicted it expires - it would be no different if they were on a dna database.

[localzuk]

And how would carrying an ID card or having a DNA database give them an idea of who you are. You'd still have the above situation. If they have grounds to stop you they can still make you prove your ID now.

 

Law abiding people will still be able to carry on as normal.

 

What about those that are law abiding but the police have a grudge against? Or ones that the government doesn't like but aren't breaking the law?

 

This does happen, and has happened to me.

 

An example of country-wide hassle against law abiding citizens is animal rights. Sure, there are some who break laws, but those who don't still get hassle due to their beliefs. People who hold a stall and hand out information are arrested for fake reasons, people who hold a protest outside a shop get abused by the police or arrested. Having ways of tracking people easier will simply make the abuse easier.

 

Personally, I'd like to see the police do actual policework rather than relying on DNA for things - as it can and does get mixed up.

[jcollings]

But all this happens now! DNA won't suddenly increase that.

 

It's just another scientific tool - would you not want them using fingerprints, CCTV images, other chemical testing eg. firearms residue? All of these can and have been mixed up in the past!

[localzuk]

But all this happens now! DNA won't suddenly increase that.

 

It's just another scientific tool - would you not want them using fingerprints, CCTV images, other chemical testing eg. firearms residue? All of these can and have been mixed up in the past!

 

Yes, and I don't like CCTV either. Why give more ammo to them to abuse?? That's the point. The amount of abuse is not worth the slight increase in crimes being solved.

 

Otherwise, why not have us all tagged and tracked every day? That'd lower crime...

[jcollings]

Yes, and I don't like CCTV either. Why give more ammo to them to abuse?? That's the point. The amount of abuse is not worth the slight increase in crimes being solved.

 

Otherwise, why not have us all tagged and tracked every day? That'd lower crime...

 

I take the opposite view - I think the amount of "abuse" will be small compared to the crimes it will help solve. I think the majority of police services are good and honest and do the job well.