Serious advice needed re: Health & safety

[MK-2]

We've been informed that over the next two weeks (Easter hols here) the school will be shut to ALL staff while builders check for asbestos.

The bursar has just been in and said no thats a lie, school is open to you, they are checking half the school and its perfectly safe, they will put curtains up over the doors near your office and will be checking. we're pretty sure there's none in the school but they need to check.

So we are being made to come in to a school that will be empty of all staff but us, while men in white suits and respirators check for asbestos, and we will be sat in our office not knowing if we are exposed.

 

Where do we stand legally on refusing to come in? I'm sorry but one woman saying its perfectly safe wont stop the possibility of inhaling asbestos fibres.

We will have nothing to do as we cannot enter the rooms we need to, so we will be in for the sake of being in, and possibly being exposed.

[iatkinson]

First thing i'd do is ask if the bursars coming in? If no staff then there's no way you should be ab exception and I think unions would agree. If school makes you come in then i'd be taking legal action against them on health and safety grounds. Not sure on exact legal ramicifations though.

[powdarrmonkey]

Talk to your union rep.

 

Generally asbestos contractors will totally seal off an area that they're working on, but obviously if they're cowbows you don't want to take that risk.

[CyberNerd]

Ask to see her risk assessment.

By law she is required to do this.

[strawberry]

either its closed or its not surely. How thoughtless are some people, risking peoples health so that they can have someone to shout at when they forget their password.

[ICT_GUY]

Ask to see her risk assessment.

By law she is required to do this.

 

Take camera to record face.

[MK-2]

talking to her is a no no. she has deliberately lied to the head before saying we've made her cry by being abusive and shouting at her.

the caretaker came in and said according to health and safety if the builders say its safe, you come in. no ifs or buts

[ICT_GUY]

Talk to the head, or go in with head / other member of staff, better still ask in writting for risk assesment. Now that will get her attention.

[TechMonkey]

Don't forget she could be saying that the school is closed to just keep teachers away. Otherwise you have dribs and drabs coming in randomly in various areas of the school, normally disturbing any work even with big signs. It is probably simpler this way to tell the teachers to just keep away. We have had painters leave because teachers came in and kicked 2 paint pots over, stepped in a tray and nearly knock a guy off a ladder!

 

But as others have said do check with union.

[GrumbleDook]

We did the same. Teachers could not come in but we could. Made life easier for the folk doing the clearup. Everything was well sealed and regularly checked. Not a risk.

[ninjabeaver]

We did the same. Teachers could not come in but we could. Made life easier for the folk doing the clearup. Everything was well sealed and regularly checked. Not a risk.

 

Same here, and its sooooo nice to have noone else in with you.

[Friez]

Like others have said, Asbestos removals usually seal off an area entirely (unless they're cowboys, in whichcase you can probably take comfort in the fact that they'll die of some lung related disease when they get a bit older! Karma at it's finest).

 

Proper Asbestos removals take Health and Safety very seriously because it's their line of work to basically remove something that is harmful to Health.

 

IF the entire school is officially shut to everyone (not just to teachers), then don't come in, but if they're only working in a specific area and they're sealing it off you should be quite okay. But this is generally from experience, what actual legislation says I don't know.

 

But funny you mention this, I've walked into work before and it's been a surprise to see the Asbestos guys in!

[Andrew_C]

We've been informed that over the next two weeks (Easter hols here) the school will be shut to ALL staff while builders check for asbestos.

Very low/no risk if they are just checking for it. They probably don't want the teachers in because they will all panic and fly off the handle. ;-)

 

The forms of asbestos used in buildings is normally quite safe if undisturbed. What I would think is happening is that a register is being drawn up to enable work to be planned so as to avoid disturbing it.

 

If any firm is registered with the LA for removal they will fully understand how to seal off an area they are working in.

 

Have a look at the asbestos watchdog site for further reassurance.

[MK-2]

ok as a follow up. came in today. theres a guy working down the bottom corridor in full white suit rig but without the face mask. nothing sealed off.

my boss went down to talk to him and he said i wasn't aware you were in the building, and we weren't informed we were to seal it off, we thought we were alone in the building.

 

whats best action to take now, as this is now a blatant lie by the bursar who has put our health in danger. he said that had he found any sign of asbestos he would have put his mask on.

so nobody informed him we were in the building, and nobody told him to seal off as he was under the impression the building was empty.

 

i'm trying to find the H&S contact for unison in this area, and my boss is writing a letter to the head.

[russdev]

This point I would as you are doing write to head informing that your health has been put at risk and that you are leaving until he/she can in writing confirm it i safe for you to work and will take full liability if found to be unsafe.

 

In letter put details of all events etc.

 

Also see if can get heads home telephone number if poss? and ring to say that got letter going home until issue can be resolved.

 

Also contact local unison rep straight away tell them what you are doing (so they can offer any advice before you give letter over etc)

[MK-2]

nobody else is in the school apart from caretakers and bursar (i think). so cant actually contact the head or anybody else. all we can do is leave now and sort it out when we return from easter hols.

there will be no writing to say its safe because it wont be brought to his attention before the teachers come back.

 

will definitely be taking this further though

[cookie_monster]

The bursar often does this here as teachers have a habit of coming in even when told not too, last hols we had staff turn up with small groups of students to use IT even though we said it wasn't available. Unless the school gives them a firn NO they still come in with the 'well it's just me' attitude.

 

The best one was when a teacher arranged to do this with a group of 6th formers and forgot to come in :-)

[russdev]

Then in letter say that you going home until the head rings you to discuss the problem.

 

Give head your contact details in the letter.

 

Then give a cc copy to bursar (she will be on phone to head before you can say hand me the phone).

 

Also go and found out contact details on firm doing the work so you have them for future if need be.

 

Point is asking for head to write to you is that gives me an action we will work when you tell me it is safe and you take liability etc (yes he may not get it until after Easter hols but that is besides the point). Also by cc the bursar you have told hte senior person on duty of your actions (otherwise they could have a discipline case against you)

 

Russell

Edited March 18, 2008 by russdev

[MK-2]

The bursar often does this here as teachers have a habit of coming in even when told not too, last hols we had staff turn up with small groups of students to use IT even though we said it wasn't available. Unless the school gives them a firn NO they still come in with the 'well it's just me' attitude.

 

The best one was when a teacher arranged to do this with a group of 6th formers and forgot to come in :-)

 

The point here is that although all staff were told not to come in due to building works, we were told it would be perfectly safe as they would seal off the area they were checking for asbestos and we would be in no direct contact.

 

The reality is the contractors had no idea we were there and weren't told to seal off anything. they thought they had free reign over the building.

so had they found any asbestos, they would have donned their face masks and carried on working, content in the knowledge its only them in that part of the building.

[MK-2]

latest update:

 

we've had the project manager come down and say that the way they do it is safe for them to work with, using a vac to remove all air particles where they drill.

so from their perspective its safe to work. they were unaware we were here but will put up a screen tomorrow to seal it off, but weren't asked/told to do it by the school.

 

as with bsf, we are being seen as being negative. the caretaker has just been down and said 'you two just want to fu**ing go home, thats all it is.' so you aren't allowed to bring up genuine concerns about your health any more.

 

Sooner they knock this place down and build a Tesco on it the better!

[pallen]

I dont care what they say to you and how you are labelled, your health is the most important thing. If your school are being negligent(and they are as it obvisouly hasn't been planned properly) they I wouldn't care what they say. Contact your union, get it in writing and go home. If the contraters have informed you that they will seal off any areas they are working in tomorrow, then I would assume this should have been done from the start.

 

I have some experience of how lightly this subject can be taken as there were checks done for asbestos in the old server room. Both myself and a colleage had worked there and we found out accidently that it was going to be checked. When we vioced our concerns we were told that there was very little risk and not to worry. We were lucky, they found no asbestos. But at no point was I informed that there was even asbestos in the room.

 

For you caretaker to say your lazy for worrying about your health is an insult. Contact the union and get everything in writing. You are not refusing to do work, you are just requesting written confirmation that it is safe to work.

[cookie_monster]

I would say that the schools planning has been very poor but as long as the work is carried out correctly and it should be anyone working with this stuff knows the dangers but of course it's much better if they know you're there.

[TronXP]

If the company is professional, they will seal off the areas and dispose of waste in a proper manor. You will be fine to work in areas around the sealed off areas.

[MK-2]

If the company is professional, they will seal off the areas and dispose of waste in a proper manor. You will be fine to work in areas around the sealed off areas.

 

My point is that for the past two days they have worked there without any sealed off areas, and only said they will put up seals when we approached them. I'm not questioning their professionalism. They weren't told we were here.

 

Anyway I've given up, it's a losing battle here. We've had four people come down, and each time we've said we were told Friday that the area would be sealed, we've been told yes but its safe, they don't expect to find any asbestos.

That's great but bomb disposal don't always expect to find a bomb, but they take the appropriate precautions before starting work. Not half way through when someone says "Shouldn't we evacuate people in the next room?"

[Pete10141748]

It doesn't matter that they "expect / don't expect to find", what matters is the potential risk.

 

I'd certainly put all of this in very clear writing, down to the comments made by people, especially that of the caretaker, which is bang our of order; no-one in any job deserves to be spoken to that way. That alone is cause for complaint.

 

I'd tell the bursar that until you get a written H&S risk assesment, signed by the bursar and a proper rep. of the company doing the work declaring it safe for you to work where you are, you're not prepared to work in the vicinity of the area being checked.

 

The whole approach to this situation has been badly handled, from what I've read, and there is no way you deserve to be the victim of someone else's incompetance.