Apparently The New Fiver Isn't Vegetarian

[MkII]

Killing is immoral

 

Technically incorrect.

 

Murder is immoral/ unlawful/ objectively wrong due to it's motives.

Killing is neither moral nor immoral. It is simply the taking of life.

 

[Garacesh]

here we go again with the pedants.

Killing another person is immoral as defined by my own code of ethics.

 

Can we not keep doing this? I think it was fairly obvious what I was saying.

[localzuk]

Killing is not immoral it is and always has been part of nature since life began. Everyone reading this thread has killed (Directly/indirectly) & eaten/worn some thing that was once living.

As morals are determined by each individual, your dictating that killing is moral is a little odd.

 

The argument is that killing unnecessarily is immoral - as eating meat and using animal parts for whatever purposes, is immoral. We have the intelligence level now that allows us to choose, and our bodies have been shown time and again to not "need" animal products. We can entirely live without them, it is simply a choice as to whether one does or not.

[CAM]

We have the intelligence level now that allows us to choose, and our bodies have been shown time and again to not "need" animal products. We can entirely live without them, it is simply a choice as to whether one does or not.

 

But the NHS disagrees? Vegetarian health Q&A - Live Well - NHS Choices

 

If you are having to use vitamin supplements to maintain a healthy diet, that is covering an imbalance somewhere in either your choice of food or how your body processes what you already eat. Also TIL: Vegans can't eat Quorn!

[siuko]

Vegans can't eat Quorn!

 

There are a number of quorn vegan products available now

[localzuk]

But the NHS disagrees? Vegetarian health Q&A - Live Well - NHS Choices

If you are having to use vitamin supplements to maintain a healthy diet, that is covering an imbalance somewhere in either your choice of food or how your body processes what you already eat. Also TIL: Vegans can't eat Quorn!

 

Didn't realise supplements contained meat products?

 

Can you survive without eating animal products? Sure. You can add as many provisos as you want to that, but the fact still remains that it is possible.

[elsiegee40]

There are a number of quorn vegan products available now

 

Really? As I understand it Quorn contains egg

 

EDIT

Just googled and you can now get Vegan Quorn

Edited December 5, 2016 by elsiegee40

[siuko]

Really? As I understand it Quorn contains egg

 

EDIT

Just googled and you can now get Vegan Quorn

 

Yeah the Hot & Spicy Burgers are quite nice but to be fair I actually like the Fry's meat free range more

[sparkeh]

But the NHS disagrees? Vegetarian health Q&A - Live Well - NHS Choices

 

If you are having to use vitamin supplements to maintain a healthy diet, that is covering an imbalance somewhere in either your choice of food or how your body processes what you already eat. Also TIL: Vegans can't eat Quorn!

Um... quote from the page that you linked to:

Do vegetarians and vegans need vitamin supplements?

With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegetarian and vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs to be healthy without the need for supplements.

[sparkeh]

Really? As I understand it Quorn contains egg

 

EDIT

Just googled and you can now get Vegan Quorn

Yes!

Another step toward being vegan for me

[GuyJD]

Vegetarian cafe refuses to accept £5 note made with animal byproduct

Edited December 5, 2016 by GuyJD

[elsiegee40]

[h=1]Vegetarian cafe refuses to accept £5 note made with animal byproduct

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/03/vegetarian-rainbow-cafe-cambridge-5-note-animal-by-product

[/h]

 

Keep up. We had that pages back!

[GuyJD]

Keep up. We had that pages back!

sorry I saw the article was 2 days old and went back beyond that and didn't see it, ignore me

 

-edit, seen it now, really not with it this Monday

Edited December 5, 2016 by GuyJD

[GuyJD]

I admire them for taking a stance but I feel it is impossible for them to be sure that nothing in the whole cafe has animal products in it - floor boards, paint, cutlery etc etc

 

you can only go so far - they are reacting to this because they know about it now.

 

still - not sure about the legal position if I tried to pay for tea and a bun for (say)£4.90 with a fiver - if it was all I had - I would have to be a real **** to insist on using a fiver if I also had a tenner

You could always take the stance that you refuse to spend the paper tenner because you are opposed to the destruction of the rain forests. what are they going to do? Tell you to stop being stupid?

[LeMarchand]

Re: the café, IIRC you can refuse service without having to give a reason (unless you're doing it on a number of protected grounds: race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc). Although I personally think that being vegetarian/vegan is an illogical lifestyle decision I do admire the fact that they made that choice about the notes as it shows that they are prepared to stand by their principles. It's a shame they are apparently getting a lot of hate directed towards them.

[TechMonkey]

Re: the café, IIRC you can refuse service without having to give a reason (unless you're doing it on a number of protected grounds: race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc). Although I personally think that being vegetarian/vegan is an illogical lifestyle decision I do admire the fact that they made that choice about the notes as it shows that they are prepared to stand by their principles. It's a shame they are apparently getting a lot of hate directed towards them.

 

But they aren't refusing service they are refusing legal tender. What if you went into have a cuppa and that is all you have. If they refuse to take your money then do you have to pay?

[jinnantonnixx]

But they aren't refusing service they are refusing legal tender. What if you went into have a cuppa and that is all you have. If they refuse to take your money then do you have to pay?

 

If they determine you're going to hit them with a new fiver beforehand, they can refuse as they're only obliged to accept legal tender to discharge a debt. Legal tender doesn't have to be accepted before a debt arises.

 

However, if you've already had that cuppa, a debt exists so they are obliged to take it as it's legal tender. Or they can nullify the debt, writing off your cuppa.

But if the cafe refuses legal tender, the debt is not discharged. Technically a breach of contract has occurred.

Edited December 5, 2016 by jinnantonnixx

[Arthur]

New £5 note: Bank to keep note despite animal fat content

 

The new £5 note will not be withdrawn, despite concerns that it contains traces of animal fat, the Bank of England says.

 

The Bank said it had concluded it would be "appropriate" to keep the £5 polymer note in circulation.

 

It will also issue the £10 polymer note as planned in September, it added.

 

The Bank gave "careful consideration to the possible alternative options for the current £5 note and the Jane Austen £10 polymer note".

[6Foot2]

Link 1: How the Microscope Challenged Vegetarianism

 

Includes a 45-minute podcast: Gastropod: To Eat or Not To Eat Meat (skip the first 2 minutes 50 seconds, it's publicity about other Gastropod events)

 

Link 2: Direct link to the Gastropod Soundcloud podcast

[6Foot2]

Link: Bank of England considers palm oil for the new £20 note - BBC News

 

...Doug Maw, who started a petition about the use of animal fat in the fiver, said he was disappointed by the Bank's decision to consider palm oil.

 

He met the Bank's chief cashier, Victoria Cleland, in January to discuss the issue.

 

"In my meeting I highlighted palm oil as something they should avoid doing," he told the BBC.

 

"The destruction of habitat caused by over-production of palm oil is contributing to the near-extinction of the orangutan."

 

The existing £5 plastic note, and the new £10 note due for release in September, will continue to use trace amounts of animal fat...

[GuyJD]

I'm sure if the Bank of England decide to go back to paper notes, you'd get people complaining about the destruction of rain forests to make them, it's the old adage, you can't please all of the people all of the time.

[mikeprice]

I'm sure if the Bank of England decide to go back to paper notes, you'd get people complaining about the destruction of rain forests to make them, it's the old adage, you can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

to rephrase

 

There is always someone who will complain about any decision

[6Foot2]

to rephrase

There is always someone who will complain about any decision

I might make a (£5) note of that.

 

[korifugi]

Firstly - apologies for the thread necromancy, but I thought it best to continue this discussion...

 

Now, the plans for the new £20 are being complained about - not because they're using a minute amount of tallow, but because they're planning to use palm oil.

 

I understand that palm oil is linked with deforestation - but so is wooden furniture. With that in mind it looks like we'll need to find something that everyone agrees is fine to use - but what?

 

Remember - it has to have zero impact to the environment, people's life choices and must practically be a bi-product.

 

Do we instead harvest some tallow by thinning down Boris Johnson's jowls? Go with soylent green? Marmite¹? BMW Indicators²?

 

 

 

 

¹ - I personally don't care much for Marmite, but understand there are many that do. They're welcome to their views - even if they're wrong

² - Of course - not all BMW drivers are oblivious to the existence of indicators. There does seem to be a worrying number on my commute though.

Edited April 4, 2017 by korifugi

[localzuk]

Firstly - apologies for the thread necromancy, but I thought it best to continue this discussion...

Now, the plans for the new £20 are being complained about - not because they're using a minute amount of tallow, but because they're planning to use palm oil.

I understand that palm oil is linked with deforestation - but so is wooden furniture. With that in mind it looks like we'll need to find something that everyone agrees is fine to use - but what?

Remember - it has to have zero impact to the environment, people's life choices and must practically be a bi-product.

Do we instead harvest some tallow by thinning down Boris Johnson's jowls? Go with soylent green? Marmite¹? BMW Indicators²?.

Palm oil is the prime cause of the endangered status of the orangutan. So, ignoring your rather odd use of italics on the word "linked", I would say that people who are complaining have a point.

 

I'd prefer no £20 note rather than killing off more orangutans.