Tablet rollout strategy

[san_narula]

Hi,

We are looking to rollout 1:1 tablet at our school starting from next year. We will most likely get the tablets for Year 7 and 10 students to start with but this hasn't been finalised yet. We are also considering giving tablets to our teachers(with dock) for better mobility. I have started researching on the models available out there so that I can shortlist the ones which will suit us best. MS Surface/Pro and Dell are on the top of my list. Once shortlisted, I am planning to get them to send out couple of units to us so that we could evaluate them before making a decision. I would like some recommendations on which tablets/specs will suit best for teachers and students.

Another important decision we have to make is on financing the devices. Being a small school we do not have the funds available to purchase them from our budget. My preference is to buy them outright and get the parents to pay an annual ICT levy which covers the cost of the devices and software as this makes it much easier to manage them from IT perspective. However, our business manager is reluctant to use this model and wants the parents to buy the devices directly from the vendor/supplier so that we do not have to deal with any money matters. I can imagine all the mess and management headache it will create and I am also unsure how I will deploy OS and applications on the devices. Moreover, if they are student owned, we may not be able to install some of them due to licensing restrictions.

I would like to know if others have been in a similar situation to us and what have they done so that it is a win-win for everyone.

Thanks

[2ilent8cho]

I know you said MS Surface is top of your list, but when going 1:1 deployment with students the iPad + Office 365 is your best situation. iPads might be a pain in shared environments , but 1:1 they really do shine. With DEP you won't even have to touch the iPads, the students could unwrap them and they will get all the settings and apps you define automatically installed on the devices from an MDM. With some MDM's such as light speed you can give the students more freedom when its offsite and more locked down when in school automatically.

[san_narula]

I know you said MS Surface is top of your list, but when going 1:1 deployment with students the iPad + Office 365 is your best situation. iPads might be a pain in shared environments , but 1:1 they really do shine. With DEP you won't even have to touch the iPads, the students could unwrap them and they will get all the settings and apps you define automatically installed on the devices from an MDM. With some MDM's such as light speed you can give the students more freedom when its offsite and more locked down when in school automatically.

 

This is not really on option for us as there are so many programs which are only available on Windows. Moreover, there will be few cloud apps which may not work on an iPad either.

[Achandler]

I can't help you with the funding side of things.

 

However, we trialled both Sufrace Pro 4 (i5 4GB) and Surface 3 as a replacement for a teacher laptop, setting up wireless streaming to the projectors etc. Our teachers said the Surface 3 was not quick enough, it lagged when multitasking, which given its spec isn't entirely unexpected but just some info for you. The Surface 4 Pro, is by far a superior product, it was quick enough for them, they preferred the kickstand on it and preferred the keyboard which is a must if you are replacing laptops.

[Iain.Faulkner]

We've just deployed 100 of the Microsoft Surface 3's to our staff, having done similar comparisons with iPad's and other Windows tablets. The Surface Pro 4 is a vastly superior product to the Surface 3....however, it does come at an increased cost (which made it not an option for us unfortunately). With the iPad's the lack of integration just made it a not viable option for us.

[p858snake]

A local school has some documentation about their 1:1 program and pricing as to why they buy, most of it is around the buying power for discounts (and then is school owned and managed until full payments are made) https://fernygroveshs.eq.edu.au/Supportandresources/Studentresources/Pages/Laptop-Program.aspx

[bclarke]

We are going fully 1:1 from September with the Surface 3. Rolled out teacher devices over Easter so they have them ahead of the students. Nearly 300 in total and using docking stations for teachers. Had some great discount and also got a free Inset day at Microsoft to kick the launch off where we took all teachers to Microsoft for the day.

 

We are leasing them and have a fantastic company who have loads of leasing options.

 

Having an interesting experience so far. Happy to share if you want to contact me. DM me if interested in a Skype call or phone call.

[3s-gtech]

Anyone else find the wifi on the Surface 3 is pants? We find it disconnects, goes to 'unidentified network' and is generally poor. Lots of firmware updates, been back to MS, went from 8.1 to 10, no change. Thankfully we only have one - it's so poor I can't deploy it. Fine for IT use though.

[Guest obsidianpillar]

Why not look at iPads + Citrix?

 

If your only reason to not purchase iPad's is due to the lack of compatibility, why not look at a Citrix XenDesktop solution? I now know that they can use the "X1" mouse which would give more practicality to users, especially if you are still after the experience you'd get on a Desktop, this with a Bluetooth keyboard/case combo (similar to the Surface's) would provide you with a fully working, and equally mobile solution.

 

I'm no licensing expert (at all!), however the iPad (in it's cheapest form) is cheaper than the Surface Pro. You'd have to analyse your school's needs and how many you plan to roll out before you make such a decision over which licensing model would suit you best from both MS and Citrix.

 

I think this may suit you better, especially if it's being rolled out to kids as they always prefer what's intuitive and accessible for them. I think if you search around you can find a XenDesktop 5 ISO around that was originally free for 10 users, maybe give you a chance to test out before you make any decisions?

 

Best,

Tom.

 

Note: I'm not employed by Citrix. Have just always been impressed by their products.

[Mistert89]

I know it may be an obvious question, but is your problem the 'surface' or the WiFi?

We have a Cisco wireless deployed, but there 'were issues' in how it was configured - resolved those and found it got better.

First Dell tablet didn't work till Cisco WLAC ios was updated to be compatible....

Laptops dropping off because 'number of devices per AP' was set too low, so they kept taking turns 'roaming' while sitting in the same room

Then found 'rogue' devices causing co-channel interference ~ one was a wireless visualiser which was sitting on a wrong channel!!

Also seen students with Hot-Spot dongles interferring....

 

How to find these:

i) INSSIDER - free. Install on a Windows PC and walk the course

ii) WiEye - free on Android. Shows all your network information, WAP MACs and even signal strengths.... (I use an old Android phone)

[Mistert89]

Also agree on the Citrix suggestion (as long as your wireless is sound). We use that to get better performance on our ageing laptops. We configure them to launch Wndows, wait for wireless then launch the VDI session....

 

We have a number of VDI licenses which are generally "staff at home at night", so are available during the day. We did have to rebuild our configuration onto better hosts with SSDs for their performance (originally Dell R710 with old fashined spinning things!!)

[DanPorter]

Posted this for PM.

[san_narula]

I can't help you with the funding side of things.

 

However, we trialled both Sufrace Pro 4 (i5 4GB) and Surface 3 as a replacement for a teacher laptop, setting up wireless streaming to the projectors etc. Our teachers said the Surface 3 was not quick enough, it lagged when multitasking, which given its spec isn't entirely unexpected but just some info for you. The Surface 4 Pro, is by far a superior product, it was quick enough for them, they preferred the kickstand on it and preferred the keyboard which is a must if you are replacing laptops.

 

 

How did you stream to the projectors, we are looking to do something similar.

[Achandler]

We have tried 3 ways, once with a VicTsing adaptor (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B018Q10GOO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) but it was unsuccessful, I think it was faulty but didnt have time to get a replacement as we had a surface unit on trial, so we got a refund. These devices could be switched between using Miracast and Airplay so seemed the perfect solution, you might get luckier with them.

 

We have used AirServer, which notably requires a laptop/ desktop in the classroom but is good for an short term solution if your projectors don't have a HDMI port on them.

 

The most success we have had with our Surfaces was using Microsoft's own Wireless Display Adapter, the cons are the projector needs a HDMI and either a 2nd nearby plug or a powered USB socket. A lot of newer ones have USB ports now. Even with this adapter though we have had a couple of issues, which were improved with frimware updates, but they still need to be cast to twice usually before the connection stays live, once its connected I think we had 1 drop out over a month or use which is acceptable to me. A quick reconnect fixed it. The con is they are also more expensive that the generic ones as above.

 

Streaming to the projectors works even better if your projectors have audio out on them as well to speakers (we are looking at doing that this summer), because then you remove the need for a VGA/ HDMI and an audio lead to go to where the teacher is sitting, which all our staff noticed. An advantage with the VicTsing and Microsoft Adaptor is also that the video and audio stream is direct between the dongle and the surface tablet, so it shouldn't hit your wifi much, the MS one operates on 5GHz the VicTsing used 2.4GHz. Just another consideration if you needed one!

[Iain.Faulkner]

How did you stream to the projectors, we are looking to do something similar.

 

Just as an additional to recommendation from @Achandler take a look at the ActionTec ScreenBeam devices. That's what we're currently working with (the pro version comes with a HDMI -VGA adapter that works with older projectors that don't have HDMI on them). They are more expensive than the Microsoft Wireless Display Adapter, but in our testing we found the ScreenBeam to work better than the Microsoft equivalent. Unfortunately you do have similar issues though in that you will need a power supply near to it though.

[Haptic]

I know you said MS Surface is top of your list, but when going 1:1 deployment with students the iPad + Office 365 is your best situation.

 

I have to disagree - currently I would say that Google chromebooks are the easiest to manage and deploy on a 1:1 deployment, especially in education. Microsoft Surfaces cost so much to purchase, as do Apple ipads. They are an expensive way of rolling out a 1:1 deployment. The insurance alone for these types of device will be high as well as the initial cost to purchase. I will never understand that in a time when most complain about budgets, facilities then look at expensive ways of achieving the same end goal as you can achieve with inexpensive devices such as a chromebook. This as well as the word that Microsoft Volume licencing is apparently due to increase in price by up to 25% over the next few years. If you looking at a 5 year IT plan then look at these additional costs.

 

We offer a 1:1 scheme and why it may not be ideal if you are in Australia, we offer a full managed payment portal for payments that is managed by ourselves/the insurance company and not the school. You should be able to find a VAR that can offer this service as part of a 1:1 roll out and this will alleviate the worry both you and your business manager have @san_narula

 

We do offer the 1:1 scheme for any type of device but in my opinion the Google Chromebooks are an easier deployment and are much easier to centrally manage. Not to mention no additional MDM!

 

Have a good look around and if the only reason you are going down this route is because it is all your infrastructure will allow currently or is just how you are set up, then have a look at your infrastructure, nothing lasts forever! Stop "just adding" to the network, take a good step back and look at ways you can achieve the same end goal but for a lot less money over the next 5 years.

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Chris

Edited May 19, 2016 by Haptic

[2ilent8cho]

The insurance alone for these types of device will be high as well as the initial cost to purchase. I will never understand that in a time when most complain about budgets, facilities then look at expensive ways of achieving the same end goal as you can achieve with inexpensive devices such as a chromebook.

Chris

 

What insurance? why would we have insurance? If a screen cracks we just replace the screen, done 15 in 2 years. Also £175 for iPad mini 2 is not that much different to a chromebook price wise. We also don't complain about budgets, we are doing very well here.

[Haptic]

I would also suggest the school leasing the devices from a VAR. Then take parental contributions for each device. You can work it on 50/50 split where the parents only pay 50% of the devices cost and the school pays the rest. I have some where the parents pay 90% of the device cost and the school pays the 10%. This means that when the student has the device at home, parents are checking if the device is okay and if the student is using it out of school as they have a vested interest to do so. We find it works very well. In the UK it works slightly differently in that any student who is a treated as Pupil Premium (The pupil premium is additional funding for publicly funded schools in England to raise the attainment of disadvantaged pupils and close the gap between them and their peers. Pupil premium funding is available to: local authority maintained schools, including special schools and pupil referral units) then the device has to be paid in full by the school and they cannot request parental contribution.

 

Again, hope this helps, but it may and probably will be different over there!

 

 

Chris

[Haptic]

What insurance? why would we have insurance? If a screen cracks we just replace the screen, done 15 in 2 years. Also £175 for iPad mini 2 is not that much different to a chromebook price wise. We also don't complain about budgets, we are doing very well here.

 

ipad minis are around the same price yes? Difficult to do school work on though I would have thought with that screen size? Only really ideal for Primary Schools? I mentioned full sized ipads specifically. Insurance for accidental damage and theft is what I mean. I can appreciate the screen may be covered, but what happens if the device is lost or stolen in your scenario? Do you replace it for them then?

 

Glad to hear you are doing well with your budget @2ilent8cho A lot however are not doing as well. I deal with them on a daily basis. How many pupils do you have and how many devices? Just wondered if you had rolled out a full 1:1 across the whole facility as @san_narula is looking to do eventually, but starting in years 7 and 10. The potential for 1200 x screens to crack or the devices to be lost or stolen may mean insurance is a better idea in their situation and may change your mind. It would alter your business manager's for certain!

 

Just trying to help and hope this does.

 

Chris

Edited May 19, 2016 by Haptic

[Achandler]

Im sorry but even 1:1 device deployments, I don't think it is right to ask parents to contribute in any way. State education is meant to be free and everyone has different restraints on their finances, some students might not be pupil premium but still have parents with little to no disposable income.

 

If you go 1:1 I am a firm beliver of the school providing the devices (no matter which flavour) and then if after 5 years they want to let the students keep them then thats there choice. If they are half and half owned, who replaces it if it breaks, gets stolen etc does both parties pay half, so your asking for more money? Do you the school have to buy insurance? Do you force everyone to contribute to isnurance, if so you just gave a parent another cost for the "free" education.

 

That is more an issue of principle as oppose to anythign else though.

[Steve21]

Im sorry but even 1:1 device deployments, I don't think it is right to ask parents to contribute in any way. State education is meant to be free and everyone has different restraints on their finances, some students might not be pupil premium but still have parents with little to no disposable income.

 

Aye, but when the students take it home and use it as a personal device? When parent's dont need to buy their own revision/books etc? It's not so much forcing people to buy stuff for the sake of it, but replacing what they're spending their money on, and benefiting the student by giving them a means to do all their work at home etc.

 

A lot of 1:1 schemes give the parents the option to let them bring in a personal device if they want instead (that's then given app codes to install etc) if they don't want to buy into the scheme etc. Schools tell parents to buy a book here, pencils, calculators etc it's just the next iteration.

 

Steve

[jmak]

We've just deployed Surface Pro 4s to teachers. Early days, but great response so far. They will be the only machine that teachers use, so they really needed to be that bit bigger and more powerful than an iPad/Surface 3. In terms of connecting to projectors, I currently have a 10 quid mini display port to VGA/DVI/HDMI convertor which works well. I've ordered a Tonsee Miracast* adaptor which I hope will allow us to cast to projectors (ours all have HDMI + USB inputs - hopefully they'll provide enough power to run the dongles). I've bought STM Dux cases after a recommendation on here and buying one to try. I'm taking a risk on damage insurance - hopefully as it's only staff use ( ) and they understand the value, they should survive! Our standard insurance does cover it, as well as theft, but there's a significant excess to pay. I reckoned the cases were a better investment.

 

It might be a different decision for a 1:1 deployment.

 

Edit: corrected typing errors and added link to dongle - I'll report back once I've found out whether it works!

 

*https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01A8E1W4K/ref=ya_st_dp_summary

Edited May 19, 2016 by jmak

[Brimstone]

ipad minis are around the same price yes? Difficult to do school work on though I would have thought with that screen size? Only really ideal for Primary Schools? I mentioned full sized ipads specifically. Insurance for accidental damage and theft is what I mean. I can appreciate the screen may be covered, but what happens if the device is lost or stolen in your scenario? Do you replace it for them then?

 

 

 

Chris

 

Insurance for full iPads including ADT and multiple claims, no excess....1 Year £28.00 plus VAT

 

Where on this earth to you get your insurance prices from...?

[Haptic]

Insurance for full iPads including ADT and multiple claims, no excess....1 Year £28.00 plus VAT

 

Where on this earth to you get your insurance prices from...?

 

Sorry you have lost me @Brimstone? I agree you would take insurance for the lot rather than replacing the screen yourselves each time at full cost?

 

Chris