Microsoft to move out of the education market?

[nathan]

Some of the times we see people accessing VLE etc would surprise many, lots of night owls out there doing their work at all times of day & night

 

But you wouldn't have full use, would probably be only a select number of users so you could still perhaps spin down some VMs.

 

If we did i think we'd have opening times for the IT - wouldn't go down well to begin with but i think our staff would get used to it.

[sted]

Is that not simply reducing your capabilities then? At the moment, all our services are available 24/7/365 (well, barring maintenance times). Moving to the cloud and then turning stuff off seems like a reduction in service!

well yes but do you need to have (to pick a random example) a sims server running at 2am on sunday?

 

im also not sure its a good idea moving stuff to the cloud really has me conflicted as to wether its a good idea / bad idea / something in between

[CyberNerd]

Some of the times we see people accessing VLE etc would surprise many, lots of night owls out there doing their work at all times of day & night

 

Sure, but a VLE needs a TINY amount of resources to run as soon as it starts getting 50% CPU load another server boots up. Even most of the day our webservers run:

13:25:43 up 138 days, 23:28, 1 user, load average: 0.14, 0.16, 0.10

[Steve21]

well yes but do you need to have (to pick a random example) a sims server running at 2am on sunday?

 

im also not sure its a good idea moving stuff to the cloud really has me conflicted as to wether its a good idea / bad idea / something in between

 

Well I certainly know that random nights I've looked to do a SIMs upgrade on the sly there's been people using it via RDS/Apps so would say yes yes you do Maybe not at full power (if there's dynamic RAM options etc in Azure) but certainly wouldn't turn it off

 

Steve

[mavhc]

If it were a company supplying services for many schools, makes sense to dynamically assign servers, assuming they all have gigabit internet, but one school on one gigabit connection isn't going to overload a server.

 

Ultimately Microsoft is annoyed at the 10-20 year support lifetimes of their on site products, wants to get rid of them, only work on 1 version ever, to reduce their costs. Those people who never upgrade cost the most to support and pay the least.

 

Apple supports for 2 years, ChromeOS auto updates, hardware is only 5 years (3 for tablets), Android Nexus 3 years from being first sold, OR 18 months after last sold.

 

Debian is 5 years.

[nathan]

Just watched the webcast, thanks to Edugeek for sorting it out. Answered a fair few questions of mine.

 

One i do have though is that it mentioned you would not need to include staff that do not use Microsoft software in the FTE count.

 

If we have a staff member that just uses Office 365 for email, would we need to include them?

[nathan]

If it were a company supplying services for many schools, makes sense to dynamically assign servers, assuming they all have gigabit internet, but one school on one gigabit connection isn't going to overload a server.

 

Ultimately Microsoft is annoyed at the 10-20 year support lifetimes of their on site products, wants to get rid of them, only work on 1 version ever, to reduce their costs. Those people who never upgrade cost the most to support and pay the least.

 

Apple supports for 2 years, ChromeOS auto updates, hardware is only 5 years (3 for tablets), Android Nexus 3 years from being first sold, OR 18 months after last sold.

 

Debian is 5 years.

 

which products have a 10 - 20 year product life? you'd be looking at Server 2003 (and that's still only 13 years old) and i really hope nobody is still running that!

[Jawloms]

Just watched the webcast, thanks to Edugeek for sorting it out. Answered a fair few questions of mine.

 

One i do have though is that it mentioned you would not need to include staff that do not use Microsoft software in the FTE count.

 

If we have a staff member that just uses Office 365 for email, would we need to include them?

 

You've never needed to include staff who don't have regular access to a PC, like site (in some cases), kitchen, cleaners......

[kennysarmy]

The FTE calculation is easily produced by simply determining how many staff you have that work over 200 hours per annum and have access to (i.e. use) computers in your school, this gives your FTE value. You would not include staff such as caretakers or gardeners, unless they use IT in their work.

[nathan]

I understand that part, but it's if that Caretaker uses their Office 365 email on his phone. Would they count towards the FTE or not?

[LeMarchand]

I understand that part, but it's if that Caretaker uses their Office 365 email on his phone. Would they count towards the FTE or not?

 

I'd say yes. But I don't work for MS - and even those who do rarely seem to know everything about their labyrinthine licensing rules.

[mavhc]

Reason 1 to move to linux: MS's licensing complexity. Not even MS can answer MS licensing questions

Reason 2: typing in product keys

Reason 3: cost

[sted]

Reason 1 to move to linux: MS's licensing complexity. Not even MS can answer MS licensing questions

Reason 2: typing in product keys

Reason 3: cost

id argue linux is probably as expensive as windows to some degree once you throw in training and other odds and sods costs you will rack up. Not to mention some software is windows only like sims

[LeMarchand]

id argue linux is probably as expensive as windows to some degree once you throw in training and other odds and sods costs you will rack up. Not to mention some software is windows only like sims

 

You could also argue that typing in a product key once in a blue moon (especially if you set up KMS) is a lot quicker than "just" typing in a few "simple" lines like

 

sudo -apt - get
$ something else
Another line
$ Do I have to grow a beard now ?
What was that next command ?

[nathan]

Reason 1 to move to linux: MS's licensing complexity. Not even MS can answer MS licensing questions

Reason 2: typing in product keys

Reason 3: cost

 

The cost of what though? There are different costs involved either way you go. Obviously if the school can't afford the cost the following won't apply. But i always think of value instead of cost. If i spend x amount will if give me x in return that i want.

[mavhc]

You could also argue that typing in a product key once in a blue moon (especially if you set up KMS) is a lot quicker than "just" typing in a few "simple" lines like

 

sudo -apt - get
$ something else
Another line
$ Do I have to grow a beard now ?
What was that next command ?

 

How do I install program 1? apt install program1. How do I install program 2? apt install program2.

 

Vs how do I repackage, what's the silent install switch, where do I put the product key, registry? MST?

[localzuk]

How do I install program 1? apt install program1. How do I install program 2? apt install program2.

 

Vs how do I repackage, what's the silent install switch, where do I put the product key, registry? MST?

 

Only true if the program you have is packaged on Linux already... What about building from source, then packaging into a .deb file? Not so quick and easy, just like if your Windows program doesn't come as an msi.

[CyberNerd]

Only true if the program you have is packaged on Linux already... What about building from source, then packaging into a .deb file? Not so quick and easy, just like if your Windows program doesn't come as an msi.

 

"docker run" works on windows too and scales infinitely in Google Cloud.

[mavhc]

Only true if the program you have is packaged on Linux already... What about building from source, then packaging into a .deb file? Not so quick and easy, just like if your Windows program doesn't come as an msi.

 

There's 56000 debian packages though, plus loads of 3rd party stuff is already packaged.

 

How do you update those 56000 programs? 1 command. Or 56000 Windows commands, can't even script gpo, lame.

[jmak]

I understand that part, but it's if that Caretaker uses their Office 365 email on his phone. Would they count towards the FTE or not?

I'd say not - the whole faculty/staff could use O365 on Windows laptops without buying MS Office licences for anyone.

 

If the caretaker isn't using MS Office on a Windows machine for work, I'd say he doesn't need a licence.

 

Or is it a Windows phone and does the school own it?! What then[emoji26]

I'd say yes. But I don't work for MS - and even those who do rarely seem to know everything about their labyrinthine licensing rules.

I accept I could be completely wrong and although I am convinced by the logic of my argument, I'm sure I could come up with a logical argument in the opposite direction too [emoji54]

[CyberNerd]

I'd say not - the whole faculty/staff could use O365 on Windows laptops without buying MS Office licences for anyone.

 

Like Google apps? Works for us.

[jmak]

Like Google apps? Works for us.

Yep. I was trying to answer @nathan's question while also showing that I thought @LeMarchand could equally be right.

 

Personally Google Apps would work, but we're stuck with requiring MS Office licences for staff as we access a remote desktop hosted by County for various things including SIMS. MS Office is installed on there, so the local machine has to be licenced too.

[CyberNerd]

Personally Google Apps would work, but we're stuck with requiring MS Office licences for staff as we access a remote desktop hosted by County for various things including SIMS. MS Office is installed on there, so the local machine has to be licenced too.

 

The councils licensing isn't your problem - it's up to the council to provide the licenses. It's the same with the capita service, if they provide access but they don't have a license it is their problem and not yours. If I set up an internet service to provide Office over RDP on the internet with an external connector TS license who would MS come after ? it wouldn't be my customers.

[jmak]

Good point. I guess it'll be in the T&Cs of our agreement with County - definitely something to check. Thanks

[Jamo]

You could also argue that typing in a product key once in a blue moon (especially if you set up KMS) is a lot quicker than "just" typing in a few "simple" lines like

 

sudo -apt - get
$ something else
Another line
$ Do I have to grow a beard now ?
What was that next command ?

 

 

And this is compared to the open command prompt. Type slmgr.vbs /ipk new-key-goes-here

 

Oh wait didn't run as admin. Close said cmd prompt.

Search for cmd again in the god awful GUI, Windows searches Bing becuase you typed cdm by accident. Wait for Windows to finish doing 'its thing' whilst hammering delete. Type cmd.

 

Search again, right click cmd, run as admin.

 

Type the same command again, yay it works!

 

This is compared to the linux commands which have already finished, updated the entire system (which doesn't require a reboot...) the linux admin is now sitting at home stroking his newly developed beard and feeling very happy. The Windows admin just realised Windows update has just given his machine a countdown. Time to reboot again