robjduk Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 Have many people here upgraded wireless yourself? I have a pretty OK system in place but its starting to show signs of needing improving what with extra devices and new parts of the building popping up. I have some funds put aside for this and a wireless survey booked but was let down at the last minute so got me thinking if it really is all that hard to do? In seconds me and my tech had a laptop with wireless range testing software on it. I am in the process of purchasing an updated access point so I can test how much of a difference that makes in areas and the time aspect aside, can anyone tell me of any massive flaw I am missing in getting a "pro" to do this? Im only upgrading my current solution as I dont have the funds to rip it all out and start again so no huge tender process required.
jamesreedersmith Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 What do you have currently and what signs is it showing of needing work? greater capacity? interearance? greater range? bottlenecks? maxing out connctions?
CyberNerd Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 A site survey isn't hard to do; but the tools are expensive. I'd expect any pro to have cisco spectrum expert, fluke airmagnet. Tools which we couldn't afford. We do have Chaneliser, but even that was a few hundred quid: Wi-Spy + Chanalyzer - 2.4GHz & 5GHz Spectrum Analysis
timbo343 Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 When i did our ruckus site survey myself, i borrowed a controller and 3 APs from a supplier and quite literally stuck an AP in an area and used 2 devices (laptop and phone) and walked out from the AP and recorded the location (each corner of the room), the signal strength of the laptop and the phone. If the devices got lower than -70db i considered this to be too weak for a wireless connection. Also with ruckus, they have a signal throughput tester to test the speed of connection. Ok it took a while but at the end of the day, thats all a company will do. 1
CyberNerd Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 A site survey doesn't just measure the signal strength, they'll also work out the sources of interference - one of the reasons we bought a WiSpy
Meldrew Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 We didn't bother with a site survey, just kind of played by ear. We spread around so many on a reasonable basis, then in areas where it was a bit thin on the ground added more. It helps when you have Unifi kit as its so cheap. IN high capacity areas, however we obviously have more, better APs. Works a treat for us. Meldrew.
njc235 Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 If you have the money to have a site survey done by professionals, why wouldn't you have it done?
robjduk Posted November 1, 2015 Author Posted November 1, 2015 If you have the money to have a site survey done by professionals, why wouldn't you have it done? because I have a functioning Ruckus system in place and not the money to rip the whole thing out so really just patching the darker areas and new areas of the school rather than start from scratch. Just looking to put a few more AP's in areas and new AP's to handle increased workload.
njc235 Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 at the end of the day, thats all a company will do. That's not quite true. A decent, vendor agnostic VAR will discuss your wants and needs with you, help you decide which system to look at, provide budgetary figures based on a predictive survey using expensive (£3k per license) software then carry out a full RF environment survey based on the system of your choice. They will then produce a full report including SNR levels, throughput, ping response times, a spectrum analysis pinpointing any potential interferers etc etc. You can then take that report to any number of resellers and beat them up for best price. 1
njc235 Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 because I have a functioning Ruckus system in place and not the money to rip the whole thing out so really just patching the darker areas and new areas of the school rather than start from scratch. Just looking to put a few more AP's in areas and new AP's to handle increased workload. Be very careful then. Filling gaps in a microcell environment can, not always but can result in adjacent APs auto backing off their power and thus reducing throughput. This apparently happened at Heathrow T5 when they put in so many APs to cope with the density requirements that everyone can get onto the wifi but nobody can get onto the internet
snagrat Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 because I have a functioning Ruckus system in place and not the money to rip the whole thing out so really just patching the darker areas and new areas of the school rather than start from scratch. Just looking to put a few more AP's in areas and new AP's to handle increased workload. If it's Ruckus then adding APs is easy really. It's smart enough to be able to handle it (assuming you have a ZD). Just do it, what's the worst that can happen?
timbo343 Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 That's not quite true. A decent, vendor agnostic VAR will discuss your wants and needs with you, help you decide which system to look at, provide budgetary figures based on a predictive survey using expensive (£3k per license) software then carry out a full RF environment survey based on the system of your choice. They will then produce a full report including SNR levels, throughput, ping response times, a spectrum analysis pinpointing any potential interferers etc etc. You can then take that report to any number of resellers and beat them up for best price. We had a few site surveys done, and never charged. Our place is fairly "clean" in terms of interference. Xirrus, netgear and Aerohive all conducted them and they basically did what i said so thats where i got the idea from, infact i was part of the surveys.
timbo343 Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) Mods, please delete this #14 of mine, i quoted the wrong post Edited November 1, 2015 by timbo343
timbo343 Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 because I have a functioning Ruckus system in place and not the money to rip the whole thing out so really just patching the darker areas and new areas of the school rather than start from scratch. Just looking to put a few more AP's in areas and new AP's to handle increased workload. Just out of interest what controller have you got, what APs are you planning on putting in and what have you got now? I would love to add a few more to mine but i have a 1100 with a 12 AP license. I would have to upgrade from the 7363 to R500 APs. Im not sure if i can up the license to 25 or up it in increments of 1like the new licensing system.
timbo343 Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 Be very careful then. Filling gaps in a microcell environment can, not always but can result in adjacent APs auto backing off their power and thus reducing throughput. This apparently happened at Heathrow T5 when they put in so many APs to cope with the density requirements that everyone can get onto the wifi but nobody can get onto the internet What were Heathrow using as their wireless system for this to happen?
Net-Ctrl Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 We would always recommend a customer having a professional site survey, if it's a small school then at very least a predictive survey using some great software like Ekahau. They will be able to show you: Signal Strength Signal-to-Noise Ratio PHY Rates Signal Coverage Sources of Interference Data Rates Getting a company to do a survey also brings additional benefits, especially if they install the solution you're currently using, as they will know the best formula to making a rock solid wireless system that will deliver what you expect it to If you're not already engaged with a Ruckus reseller, if you have site plans, we could offer you a free predictive survey, so you have a better idea of where you should add APs in, or it could be just a case of upgrading some in certain areas. If your site is large and/or complex, you could then consider having an active survey. This way you would get more info on your current deployment, and advice from Ruckus expert before making a decision on AP models, counts and locations
Wave9_Andy Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 We would always recommend a customer having a professional site survey, if it's a small school then at very least a predictive survey using some great software like Ekahau. They will be able to show you: Signal Strength Signal-to-Noise Ratio PHY Rates Signal Coverage Sources of Interference Data Rates Getting a company to do a survey also brings additional benefits, especially if they install the solution you're currently using, as they will know the best formula to making a rock solid wireless system that will deliver what you expect it to If you're not already engaged with a Ruckus reseller, if you have site plans, we could offer you a free predictive survey, so you have a better idea of where you should add APs in, or it could be just a case of upgrading some in certain areas. If your site is large and/or complex, you could then consider having an active survey. This way you would get more info on your current deployment, and advice from Ruckus expert before making a decision on AP models, counts and locations Yep agreed. We would use Ekahau too. Whilst probably not applicable to the OP in his scenario, a proper survey could end up saving quite a chunk of money in the long run. We have just replaced a 70 AP deployment with 43 AP in a secondary school and vastly improved performance and stability for users. We have another customer where the cost of the survey was saved 20 times over by proper RF planning reducing the estimated AP's requirement. Don't forget a post install survey is good practice too and we usually complete one of those for the customer to produce an 'as deployed' report. Theres a lot going on in a modern secondary.....
mowgli82 Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 A site survey isn't hard to do; but the tools are expensive. I'd expect any pro to have cisco spectrum expert, fluke airmagnet. Tools which we couldn't afford. We do have Chaneliser, but even that was a few hundred quid: Wi-Spy + Chanalyzer - 2.4GHz & 5GHz Spectrum Analysis Have a look at Netspot only available on mac I think its fairly cheap 1
Davit2005 Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Another vote for Wi-Spy + Chanalyzer , it pinpointed some interference in a room where we always had issues with WiFi. We did the Ruckus upgrade ourselves, it wasn't that difficult TBH. We even used less AP's than our previous system. 1
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