[sims] FSM / PP

[studio]

Just a quick question

 

When adding a child as FSM in SIMS should I also be ticking the PP indicator? Is this something that other schools do?

 

I have already imported the PP data from K2S but there are students who the LA have told us are new to FSM.

 

Many thanks

[PhilNeal]

They are different indicators. PP gives an entitlement of a free meal but now there are age related free meals too. PP is an indicator that is used by Ofsted.

[Banjo]

They are different indicators. PP gives an entitlement of a free meal but now there are age related free meals too. PP is an indicator that is used by Ofsted.

 

This is one area of SIMS that is a little confusing.

In school you have pupils who due to their contextual circumstances are entitled to a FSM and attract PP funding.

You also have pupils who are in receipt of FSM due to their contextual circumstance but are not yet PP funded at the establishment due to their FSM/onroll date.

 

In SIMS in Panel 9 (Meals) there is already a tick box for Free Meal with PP underneath??

 

What schools want to know is the number of pupils they have been PP funded for from the DfE £1320 etc and the total number of PP eligible pupils they have in school – not necessarily the same thing.

[CAM]

The census will pick up the date ranges in the FSM box. So you add a date range for a student for when they were eligible for Free School Meals and the DfE will provide funding for anyone eligible within 6 years of the census date under the EVER6 rule. The Pupil Premium tick box and reason field is used for your internal tracking, it is not automatically updated and it is not collected by the census. You should still tick it to indicate Pupil Premium status as it will feed through into Assessment Manager, third party tracking tools, etc for analysis.

 

(Note that this is based on previous year's census notes, my LA hasn't released guidance for this October yet).

Edited September 10, 2015 by CAM

[Banjo]

The census will pick up the date ranges in the FSM box. So you add a date range for a student for when they were eligible for Free School Meals and the DfE will provide funding for anyone eligible within 6 years of the census date under the EVER6 rule. The Pupil Premium tick box and reason field is used for your internal tracking, it is not automatically updated and it is not collected by the census. You should still tick it to indicate Pupil Premium status as it will feed through into Assessment Manager, third party tracking tools, etc for analysis.

 

(Note that this is based on previous year's census notes, my LA hasn't released guidance for this October yet).

 

But what is 'PP status’? Is it pupil eligibility for PP or the school/pupil in direct receipt of PP funding for that year?

Phil from his above reply thinks the tick box represents an entitlement to a free lunch!

[PhilNeal]

PP eligibility comes from government via your LA. FSM if you've had them in the past there is extra funding.

[CAM]

As I stated in my post, the Pupil Premium tick box is for internal administration only. Date ranges in Section 6 on Pupil Details determine if a pupil is eligible for Free School Meals so they must be accurate. The DfE also publishes a list to each school which your bursar should have.

 

A "Pupil Premium" student is any student who has been ever been eligible for a Free School Meal within the last six years even if they are not currently in receipt of free meals. This is called EVER6 and is used to highlight students who have, at some point in their life, been in a disadvantaged situation to require help (poverty, looked-after students, severe behavioural issues, etc). The school will subsequently receive additional funding for each premium student.

[CAM]

I think all my Pupil Premium flags have been reset for the new academic year. This could be fun!

[Banjo]

The pointed I have clearly failed to make is - Do you tick the box exclusively for pupils who have been PP funded for that year OR for everyone the school knows is eligible for the funding i.e. in receipt of a FSM, but joined the school after the census and was not included by the DfE in the funding round for that year.

 

There is a big difference.

 

I’ve argued that there should be two tick boxes:–

1) PP eligible & funded by the DfE for that year

2) PP eligible but not funded by the DfE for that year

[CAM]

I tick all of them as there are multiple census rounds each year. I also want to know how Pupil Premium is performing against others in the school, leaving un-funded students off the list will create gaps and the risk of a child falling behind as staff won't know they need support.

[PhilNeal]

The PP flag is owned by government - they tell the school who has the flag. The school should be using it to demonstrate that these pupils are benefitting from the funding i.e. attendance, attainment, behaviour is not below those children not at a disadvantage. Discover can show comparative graphs which can demonstrate effectiveness day to day and in an inspection. The PP flag is dated. I think it is possible for the LA to provide a file to update these records.

[Jehanzeb]

Interesting discussion, I wanted to understand whether pupil premium amount is only allocated for the meals or dopes meal amount is a proportion of pupil premium? For example PP per person is £1320 and that is per academic year which means 195 days 195 days. £1320/195 is £6.77 a day. What proportion of £6.77 is allotted to meals? Or is it all of it is given towards the meal, considering it is only lunch time when the meal is given?

 

Did I make this confusing? I just need a division so that I can calculate the catering costs.

 

Many thanks

 

J.

[Edu-IT]

Interesting discussion, I wanted to understand whether pupil premium amount is only allocated for the meals or dopes meal amount is a proportion of pupil premium? For example PP per person is £1320 and that is per academic year which means 195 days 195 days. £1320/195 is £6.77 a day. What proportion of £6.77 is allotted to meals? Or is it all of it is given towards the meal, considering it is only lunch time when the meal is given?

 

Did I make this confusing? I just need a division so that I can calculate the catering costs.

 

Many thanks

 

J.

Pupil Premium funding is nothing to do with Free School Meals in this respect. A child could be receiving PP funding but not actually be entitled to receive free school food. FSM is used to determine whether a child gets PP funding. Any child who has been eligible for FSM in the past 6 years will get PP funding (Ever 6).

 

Your ‘free school meal’ costs make up an element of your GAG. Meals aren’t paid for from the £1320.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Edu-IT

[Jehanzeb]

Pupil Premium funding is nothing to do with Free School Meals in this respect. A child could be receiving PP funding but not actually be entitled to receive free school food. FSM is used to determine whether a child gets PP funding. Any child who has been eligible for FSM in the past 6 years will get PP funding (Ever 6).

 

Your ‘free school meal’ costs make up an element of your GAG. Meals aren’t paid for from the £1320.

 

Thank you for a prompt response Edu-IT. I really appreciate it. So you mean the meals are separately calculated. The documentation is showing £440 for FSM and £540 for Ever 6. Is that per pupil and is it yearly amount? In which case it would be £440/195=£2.26 a day per pupil.

This leads me to a question what is the difference between FSM and Ever 6 please? Is FSM are new applicants during a census day and Ever 6 are already FSM kids?

Kindest regards

J.

[Edu-IT]

Thank you for a prompt response Edu-IT. I really appreciate it. So you mean the meals are separately calculated. The documentation is showing £440 for FSM and £540 for Ever 6. Is that per pupil and is it yearly amount? In which case it would be £440/195=£2.26 a day per pupil.

This leads me to a question what is the difference between FSM and Ever 6 please? Is FSM are new applicants during a census day and Ever 6 are already FSM kids?

Kindest regards

J.

Which documentation is that?

 

FSM - Those currently entitled to free school meals.

 

Ever 6 - Have been entitled to free school meals at some point in the past 6 years. This makes up your Pupil Premium allocation.

[Jehanzeb]

Which documentation is that?

 

FSM - Those currently entitled to free school meals.

 

Ever 6 - Have been entitled to free school meals at some point in the past 6 years. This makes up your Pupil Premium allocation.

 

Thank you Edu-IT, the documentation notes that come when budget is released (Budget notes). Last year it didn’t show it as FSM but within deprivation column it showed one single amount but this year notes it shows it separately differentiating Ever 6 and FSM.

The whole idea is to find out how much FSM (in terms of value per child) government gave to school so that I can calculate the catering cost. For example I have catering income (non-FSM parents who pay for the meal)+UIFSM+FSM then expense side is Catering staff cost, catering provisions, catering equipment etc. In short, I need to know have we been in surplus or deficit with regards to catering. So far I have the UFISM and Non-FSM income but trying to get FSM value.

Kindest regards

J.

[Edu-IT]

OK so I see where you've got those figures from. Those are the amounts given to school for FSM and FSM6 (Ever6).

 

So yes, you could allocate all of that income to your catering operation.

[Banjo]

Thank you Edu-IT, the documentation notes that come when budget is released (Budget notes). Last year it didn’t show it as FSM but within deprivation column it showed one single amount but this year notes it shows it separately differentiating Ever 6 and FSM.

The whole idea is to find out how much FSM (in terms of value per child) government gave to school so that I can calculate the catering cost. For example I have catering income (non-FSM parents who pay for the meal)+UIFSM+FSM then expense side is Catering staff cost, catering provisions, catering equipment etc. In short, I need to know have we been in surplus or deficit with regards to catering. So far I have the UFISM and Non-FSM income but trying to get FSM value.

Kindest regards

J.

You can download the file (Key to Success) with all your PP children and see how much £ each has been allcoated. Those kids with half the usual amount are duplicates that were never resolved.

[Jehanzeb]

You can download the file (Key to Success) with all your PP children and see how much £ each has been allcoated. Those kids with half the usual amount are duplicates that were never resolved.

 

Thank you for your kind reply Banjo, where can I get this file please? Any documentation on how to use it as well?

Kindest regards

J.

[bobsmith]

Do you have a user account for this website: https://sa.education.gov.uk/ui/home ?

 

next - do you have KtS available in the list of applications once you've logged in to that website?

 

next - if all of the above has worked so far you should see Pupil Premium 2017-2018 on the left hand side and the option to download a csv with the information.

 

You can open this in excel and have a looksie at the students contained within it.

[Jehanzeb]

Do you have a user account for this website: https://sa.education.gov.uk/ui/home ?

 

next - do you have KtS available in the list of applications once you've logged in to that website?

 

next - if all of the above has worked so far you should see Pupil Premium 2017-2018 on the left hand side and the option to download a csv with the information.

 

You can open this in excel and have a looksie at the students contained within it.

 

Thanks Bobsmith, I downloaded but it showed current students incl year 6 which will be leaving this year. So I removed them and added the ones that came to school including reception that applied for FSM as that would automatically make them eligible for PP.

 

P.S. why can’t we have things in just one place, I find it so difficult to go here there, wasting time looking for things that should be published/sent within one documentation.

 

Kindest regards

 

J.