external network cabling

[mrstrong]

Hi,

 

I've been asked to put network points in an outside class room.

Probably about 25 meters to nearest patch panel.

Cables will need to run outside over a roof.

I'd also like to put in a wireless access point powered over ethernet.

 

What cable would you recommend ? E.g. Cat 5 or Cat 6, do I need shielded

or anything special as it is going to be outside?

 

Any web links to suitable suppliers/products much appreciated, I'll probably need 100m in total.

Never done much cabling so any advice appreciated :-)

 

Thanks

[Steve21]

Some of the old primaries we used to support had external stuff for their log cabins, and it was special external cat5, think it was thicker/stronger outing etc for weather proofing etc etc.

 

Steve

[Gaz]

Well for a start external grade ethernet cable is available which will withstand the weather, rain UV etc.

Cat5e External Grade UTP Cable 305mt Boxes | Comms Express

 

Are you going to tackle this yourself or get a company in?

 

Are you going to run 1 cable and put a switch in the classroom?

[Boredguy]

We use normal Cat5e External Cable for the odd job here where we plan on having cable outside, mainly for connecting up the odd AP or mobile.

 

We have it attached to overhead catenary, clipped to walls and sat on flat roof's and not had any issue.

Should point out that we use the same cable for telephones and automated gates so it's multi-purpose

 

Really if your going between buildings it should be proper STP with the metal connectors or Fibre, but if your just putting some points outside of the building (assuming under cover) then External Cat5e should be fine for you.

[Meldrew]

Call me cautious, but I'd always run fibre externally.

 

Meldrew

[edutech4schools]

I was always under the assumption that you should not run cat5 outside due to lightning / fire issues. Is this not the case.

[3s-gtech]

If possible, use fibre. Much more flexibility in terms of connection, and shouldn't work out much difference in cost due to the number of lengths of Cat5 needed. Tidier too!

[pickman]

I tried to run a classroom plus AP over external Cat5 just wasn't man enough for the job. Similar distance

 

Ended up installing a fibre link.

[Boredguy]

I tried to run a classroom plus AP over external Cat5 just wasn't man enough for the job. Similar distance

 

Ended up installing a fibre link.

Strange, as eCat5 is the same as Cat5e and we have around 60 stations and 2 AP's in a remote cabinet all feeding back to our core switch over a single 1Gb cat5 run that's around 100 metres!

[Gaz]

I was always under the assumption that you should not run cat5 outside due to lightning / fire issues. Is this not the case.

 

Telephone cables run externally from the road into buildings!

[snagrat]

Telephone cables run externally from the road into buildings!

 

But they don't have expensive equipment on the end of them.

 

Lightning is a risk but a very small one.

[Boredguy]

Telephone cables run externally from the road into buildings!

 

But they don't have expensive equipment on the end of them.

 

Lightning is a risk but a very small one.

*Touch wood* had one of our mobiles connected via Cat 5 for around 16 years and not a strike yet. Then again both the mobile and the building the switch is in comes from the same distribution board so the Earth value should be the same, and the Lightning conductor is on the next building over and much, much higher than the eCat5

 

It is a cost/risk calculation but for what the OP is wanting to do fibre might be too expensive if it's only for a couple of sockets and an AP. You can always run the cable in some trunking along side the roof to add extra protection from the elements.

[mrstrong]

Well for a start external grade ethernet cable is available which will withstand the weather, rain UV etc.

Cat5e External Grade UTP Cable 305mt Boxes | Comms Express

 

Are you going to tackle this yourself or get a company in?

 

Are you going to run 1 cable and put a switch in the classroom?

 

I've been asked to do it. I was going to run four cables, one for the POE Wireless AP and as there are three

very very small rooms (its a "new build") I was going to have one data point in each room.

 

The plan was to just have one Wireless AP initially and see how it goes but at least if I drop the cables

in before they start plastering/decorating I've got the option of connecting up the data points in the future.

[Steve21]

I've been asked to do it. I was going to run four cables, one for the POE Wireless AP and as there are three

very very small rooms (its a "new build") I was going to have one data point in each room.

 

Even if you're thinking 1 point, I'd say run a few extra cables. The cost for the cabling if you're already running them is so minimal and you'll thank yourself when you decide you need more or one needs repair/modifying etc

 

Steve

[mrstrong]

Just had a look at the cab I was going to run the cables back to: it's chock full, no more rack space and only one spare

port on a 24 port patch panel :-( There is a 48 port switch though with some spare ports I could use.

 

The new build is basically one big room built onto the side of the school, partitioned into 3 smaller

rooms for working with pupils in small groups.

 

Maybe I need to put a new data cabinet in there with a switch ?

 

I've never worked with fibre, presumably I'd need a fibre patch panel, new switch, fibre modules,

this is starting to get expensive (for a primary) and head wants it sorted asap.

[Steve21]

Just had a look at the cab I was going to run the cables back to: it's chock full, no more rack space and only one spare

port on a 24 port patch panel :-( There is a 48 port switch though with some spare ports I could use.

 

The new build is basically one big room built onto the side of the school, partitioned into 3 smaller

rooms for working with pupils in small groups.

 

Maybe I need to put a new data cabinet in there with a switch ?

 

I've never worked with fibre, presumably I'd need a fibre patch panel, new switch, fibre modules,

this is starting to get expensive (for a primary) and head wants it sorted asap.

 

We had each cabin with it's own switch, as you know a little down the line you'll suddenly need wireless/10 other machines put in there

 

Wouldn't honestly bother with fibre unless you really need it, can always run a few cat to trunk in future.

 

Steve

[Boredguy]

Simple option would be single cable and another cabinet as it gives you scope to add more outlets in the future (and reduces the number of external cables you need) or run multiple cables over the roof to give future expansion (but will look a lot more untidy than an single cable)

 

Ideally you would connect the cabinets up by fibre so yes you need the 2 patch panels, modules and switch and the cable itself. You can get self install but that generally needs around a 1inch hole cut for you to put the cable through and then you need to fill it up... I cheated and used 2 IP55 enclosure boxes where the cable goes into/out of the building and made a slot in side for the cable to pass through.

 

Single cat5 between cabinets is fine and a lot cheaper/less headaches for you. I'd run at least 2 cables just so you have a spare in place in case one gets damaged, or you want to double the bandwidth later on.

[Gaz]

If it were me going off this new info, I would have to send 2 Cat5's across for redundancy or trunking and put a switch in the outside classroom inside a wall mounted cab. You can get all sorts of types of conduit if you want to further protect the external cables.

[truebluesteve]

External CAT5 will do the job fine and maybe run extras as others have said. I think fibre is probably going to be expensive if you are on a tight budget and probably wont make a big difference to performance anyway.

 

You could run the cables in containment (galvanised box trunking for example) but its probably going to be overkill

[mrstrong]

Thanks all, time to do some shopping.

 

Can anyone recommend a few websites I can use to buy all this kit in ?

[Gaz]

Whats your shopping list?

[Boredguy]

I normally get our cable and sockets from Videk, either direct or via Insight (since sometimes the videk products on Insight are cheaper!!)

[mrstrong]

I've mainly bought stuff through the LEA i.e. computers/laptops

and odd bits off ebuyer, amazon, misco

 

Whats your shopping list?

 

Well it will something like (depending on price):

100m roll of external Cat 5

cheap network cabinet

cheap switch

cheap patch panel

punch down / crimping tool

 

Though just searched on misco for network cabinet Lindy 15U Easy Access Network Wall Box, 600mm Depth (27114) - www.misco.co.uk

£228 Ex Vat ! Crikey I thought steel was supposed to be cheap!

[Gaz]

Cabinet

Data Cabinet 15U 19-inch 450mm Deep Wall Mount Cabinet CAB-W15U-EL450

Patch Panel

LMS Data 24-Port CAT5e Patch Panel 19-inch, 1U, Rack Mount - PPAN-24-LC2

External Cat5e

LMS DATA CAT5e Solid U/UTP External/Outdoor PVC Ethernet Cable, 305m, Black (Boxed)

Cheap switch (a difficult one because its not something that someone can really recommend, how many ports are needed?

Linksys LGS318P 16-Port Smart Desktop Gigabit PoE+ Switch w/ 2x SFP Ports (125W) 300 Series

Punchdown tool

BroadbandBuyer Impact Krone Punch Down Tool

Crimp tool (this one is a little expensive as its fully metal construction but so much more worth it than the cheap plastic scissor type ones that dont crimp squarely)

http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d03026/modular-crimping-tool/dp/TL08741

 

£496.68

[mrstrong]

Thanks,

 

I can go back to head now with some figures.

 

Just out of interest if I did go fibre how difficult is it to "patch in" e.g. "watch a youtube video

kind of job" or is it something best left to an experienced pro?