Extricom wireless solution

[markcuk]

Hi everyone

 

just wondering if any of you have the above system in place and have dealt with a company called wirless IT.

 

they did a demo for us yesterday and i am impressed by the system, not usually a fan of wireless but this convinced me

 

thanks

 

mark

[markcuk]

anyone?

[ThatBoringBloke]

Yep.

 

We have it in place for testing internally here.

 

They did us a good sale so we bought the kit for us to evaluate internally.

 

We have since discovered that it doesn't work with Fujitsu laptops or EDA's.

 

One thing is strange - They are the only people who offer this type of solution. If it works so well surely one of the big boys would pick up on the idea?

[sysman]

We're a large high school and have installed Extricom kit in one of the buildings. It has worked well for us with Dell and HP laptops and cured our big problem of classess of 30 laptops.

 

We are rolling this kit out accross the whole school and I hear rumour BT and Dell are taking the kit on with Dell labellling as there own.

 

I work for an IT company based at the school and we bought the kit directly so have no experience of the wireless company you talk of but I can totally recommend the kit.

[Haptic]

our sister company offers this solution T James Wired And Wireless Communications so if you require a quotation or any further infomation be sure to pm me your contact details,

[maniac]

I've also had a demo of this system, and was very impressed by it, particulalry when he demod it using a VOIP handset walking around the room we were in, and you could actually see on the screen which 'transmitter' it was talking to and how it roamed between them with no drop out, very impressive.

 

I would also like to hear anyone's opinions, as it's very likely I'll be specing out a brand new building soon and this is the wireless system I am seriously considering if it actually works on a large scale. Also if any school in the south east area has it in place I'd really like to see it in action.

 

Mike.

[powdarrmonkey]

My NM has just asked if I knew anything about this, does anyone have it in place and wouldn't mind a visit? Sysman, where are you?

 

Cheers

[myeomans]

We've had the system in for nearly 12 months, it's working fine though we have had to reset the switch a couple of times. We also have had some problems with Fujitsu laptops connecting with poor signal strength. However HP and Acer laptops have been OK

[ranj]

Dear All

 

I really keen on this wireless solution. I have asked 3 companies to quote for extricom(Managed Enterprise Technologies - Bham, First Class Technologies and Nortech Network services Northampton).

 

I have seen live demos and am convinced this is the best solution for the school. The way VOIP works with this solution is amazing, (if you pull out a access point, the phone will just reroute to another AP immediately with no drop out!).

 

The question I had was I don't know which company to choose. I think I probably will not use Nortech because comparing the quotes for the exact solution, Nortech quoted me 44k for a whole school solution, compared to MET who quoted me 18K, How can a difference in price be so much. There are slightly more AP in the nortech solution compared to MET but the difference is crazy 26K difference!

 

MET and First class technologies have organised demo sites for me to view which I will be seeing in the next few days.

 

I have a question, When it comes to a time to negotiate with each supplier what do others edugeek users do. Price isn't the only consideration, I want to look at reliability, quality of install. Is there any other things I should take into consideration?

 

If anyone has used any of the above companies, I would appreciate any feedback anyone can give me, in particular MET.

 

Thanks

[Haptic]

Dear All

 

I really keen on this wireless solution. I have asked 3 companies to quote for extricom(Managed Enterprise Technologies - Bham, First Class Technologies and Nortech Network services Northampton).

 

I have seen live demos and am convinced this is the best solution for the school. The way VOIP works with this solution is amazing, (if you pull out a access point, the phone will just reroute to another AP immediately with no drop out!).

 

The question I had was I don't know which company to choose. I think I probably will not use Nortech because comparing the quotes for the exact solution, Nortech quoted me 44k for a whole school solution, compared to MET who quoted me 18K, How can a difference in price be so much. There are slightly more AP in the nortech solution compared to MET but the difference is crazy 26K difference!

 

MET and First class technologies have organised demo sites for me to view which I will be seeing in the next few days.

 

I have a question, When it comes to a time to negotiate with each supplier what do others edugeek users do. Price isn't the only consideration, I want to look at reliability, quality of install. Is there any other things I should take into consideration?

 

If anyone has used any of the above companies, I would appreciate any feedback anyone can give me, in particular MET.

 

Thanks

 

Hi Ranj,

 

If you would like to pm me your contact details I can speak with you regarding this as we are a official Extricom installation company,

[sirsir]

I have looked at enterprise wireless in depth now (for schools). Extricom impressed me until I discovered that every access point had to be directly wired to their controller switches. As we are a multi building site, this would have been very expensive as the controllers are pricey.

I have since discovered Meru networks, which work on a similar channel bonding system but can route APs back to central controller via fibre.

 

I will be going to their reference school - Heathlands very soon to see it in action. We intend to issue each student with a laptop.....

 

Tom

[john]

Can I point you to our good friends at Net+Ctrl please who do Ruckus Wifi which is designed with VOIP comms in mind They presented at the Northeren Conference and we have a few members on here that have got trial kit from them and / or bought it now or are saying they will be doing ASAP.

 

Contact is Mark Power 01473 281 211

 

Net-Ctrl - Ruckus Wireless is the page and there site. I know Mark is going for a few days well earned rest before too much longer (if not already gone) but one of the team there will be happy to sort you out im very sure.

[stevenlong1985]

Yes Before you do anything! ring up net-ctrl, there ruckus wireless is Smoking HOT, Its by far one of the cheapest solutions around and it works.

 

Ruckus Wireless

 

I can not fault the kit, I Had a demo kit to test, Did the microwave test it worked! Move coverage than compared to another AP, took me lest than 10mins to setup the controller and the APs! and the price is a bargin! best thing since the chinese invented Tea!

[WirelessITDean]

After reading your queries and reviews, I thought i would post this message for help purposes.

If I can answer any of your quesitons regarding the Extricom WLAN proposal, please feel free to give me a call 01928 511793.

This is by far the best internal Wireless LAN solution that i have ever come across in my working history of wireless technology, as i tackles the inherent problems that wirelessLAN as a whole use to (and still does bar Extricom) suffer from.

I can honestly state that performance wise, there is no better (internal infrastructure) vendor.

i lookk forward to hearing from anyone that needs answers regarding this technology.

kind regards

Dean

[User3204]

I had an Extricom guy come out and show us the system, and it looks far superior to what we have, it's just a pity we already have Cisco across the site.

 

I did speak to another vendor, who suggested that Trapeze, NonStop Wireless | Trapeze Networks do a similar system, but I've not seen this.

[intheknow]

Reading the post I thought I'd comment.

 

Extricom has a unique proposition but don't be fooled. Here are ten reasons why not to buy:

 

1. Each AP's acts as an antennae which gives great coverage area but adding AP's does not increase bandwidth! A 24 port switch with 24 AP's all on one "blanket" at .11b settings gives 11Mb of bandwidth...not good. Share that with 24 students in 24 classrooms then the potential available b/w is into the K/bs range...rubbish

 

2. Dual radio AP's do not offer any antennae diversity

 

3. Dual or quad radio AP's have one antenna that "does all". The problem is that antennaes, to get max performance, requires different antennae's. Hence the one size fits all has an impact on distance...meaning more AP's to cover the same area which means more cost.

 

4. There True Reuse is a myth....ask them to show you this with several different types of laptops with different radio chipsets in. Make sure they are not all Atheros!

 

5. Great VoIP demo yes...but they have no QoS on the box. They will say simply but different traffic types on different blankets but what about the same traffic types on the same blanket.

 

6. If an AP fails then it will auto re-route...yes but what happens when you have a switch fail! There is no redundancy and therefore this is not an enterprise class sytem.

 

7. All cables have to re-route back to each switch...nothing can go over a layer two infrastructure.

 

8. Ask how many users can be assoicaied to any one switch. In order to make this system work the AP's are antennaes and the switchis the AP. Last I heard was that it could support 128 users in hardware then after that it ran like a dog in software.

 

9. Cost - the solution is not cheap if you need several switches in several locations.

 

10. Their channel is not well trained and leads to price differences between competing resellers. If you have an issue they call Extricom in directly and there are ony two engineers in the whole of the UK...STAY AWAY.

 

You will hear of this solution working, I argue that to get this working in a high data, mission critical environment is a real challenge. Student use in a school, then yes you can get away with it.

 

Check out the other wireless LAN players and stick to well known names.

 

Motorola - very good indoor and outdoor solution player, good price

Cisco - expensive but may fit with your current architecture

Aruba - security play is good but you pay for it

Belden/Zyxel - STAY AWAY some of it is Extricom but a different colour

[WirelessITDean]

Dear (Apparently) in the know.

 

Please allow me to retort to your unsubstantiated reasons not to buy Extricom and thus put you in the know.

under each of your reasons you will find an actual answer to your objections and therefore removing objectionality and implementing actual truth.

 

 

1. Each AP's acts as an antennae which gives great coverage area but adding AP's does not increase bandwidth! A 24 port switch with 24 AP's all on one "blanket" at .11b settings gives 11Mb of bandwidth...not good. Share that with 24 students in 24 classrooms then the potential available b/w is into the K/bs range...rubbish

ANSWER:- 1.1 increase bandwidth with further AP's...Actually it does not increase B/W, IT INCREASES ACTUAL THROUGHPUT, by reducing contention and utilising uplink diversity (connecting to 3 AP's at all times rather than drowning one AP in a cell based solution such as Cisco, Trapeze, Aruba, Meru for example, and slowing down the network = less bandwidth for all users stuck on 1 AP with high contention instead of having a choice of 3 AP's... therefore less network traffic= higher throughput)

also the extricom "blanket" removes edge users which is consistently found in cell based wireless. again Extricom providing greater bandwidth and throughput to each client rather than the closest to the cell based AP.

1.2 11b legacy clients... this is one of the main advantages in the Extricom solution. you can seperate legacy users onto another channel blanket as Extricom provides either X2 or X4 blankets from the same number of access points as a cell based solution.(cisco etc) therefore allowing 802.11g clients (and now N) to retain their 54Mbps status... ultimately you will know that 802.11b clients will haver this affect on every wireless network, but with Cisco, Trapeze, Meru, you cannot seperate them, therefore ending up with (as you say) "rubbish connectivity"

we have had a test where 40 students all connnected with their personal laptop profiles (inc antivirus background programmes) in 3.5 minutes. try and achieve that with another wireless network...!!!

 

2. Dual radio AP's do not offer any antennae diversity

ANSWER:- they dont need to because you utilise further APs as your diversity (actually increasing the effect by utilising X3 APs rather than X2 diversity antennas on X1 AP. (as you agree, the AP's in the Extricom solution act as antennas)

 

3. Dual or quad radio AP's have one antenna that "does all". The problem is that antennaes, to get max performance, requires different antennae's. Hence the one size fits all has an impact on distance...meaning more AP's to cover the same area which means more cost.

ANSWER:- Any Access Point (internal with integrated antenna's) have a 2.2dBi antenna, same as Extricom. also please refer to answer2 to further substantiate antenna connectivity etc.

 

4. There True Reuse is a myth....ask them to show you this with several different types of laptops with different radio chipsets in. Make sure they are not all Atheros!

ANSWER:- True re-use works. hoewever can only be utilised on X1 blanket so work out which 54mbps network "blanket" (from your choice of X4 = 216Mbps instead of 54Mbps) is going to be most utilised, then switch on true re-use and watch the actual throuput increase. NOT MYTH, FACT.. Although you do have to know how to configure correctly. Again different chipsets on any wireless network creates detriment, not just the Extricom soution, but again UPLINK DIVERSITY = faster log on times and better throughput.

 

5. Great VoIP demo yes...but they have no QoS on the box. They will say simply but different traffic types on different blankets but what about the same traffic types on the same blanket.

ANSWER:- thats the point of seperate blankets, rather than proportion a part of your 54Mbps (standard network) bandwidth via VLAN, (IE 8Mbps VLAN VoIP, 46Mbps data) simply change blanket therefore not reducing connectivity for all other no QoS users, whilst still providing better QoS for the VoIP, Video clients. a much wiser and better suggestion than simply splitting what you have got. lkets face it, everyone on wireless wants more bandwidth, not less.

 

6. If an AP fails then it will auto re-route...yes but what happens when you have a switch fail! There is no redundancy and therefore this is not an enterprise class sytem.

ANSWER:- Thats why you have "Value Added" companies such as ourselves. we provide Next Business Day (NBD) engineer on site with NBD switch swap maintenance inclusive.

Can you tell me what happens when your Cisco WLAN controller fails ???

does this mean that Cisco cant provide an enterprise class system ???

 

7. All cables have to re-route back to each switch...nothing can go over a layer two infrastructure.

ANSWER:- this is no issue whatsoever. thats why fibre (industry standard) was invented. use to route multiple Extricom switches together. Also Extricom have provided a self powering inline Power over Ethernet repeater. thus increasing the standard PoE distance capabilities from 100metres to 200 metres. (Switch to AP)

 

8. Ask how many users can be assoicaied to any one switch. In order to make this system work the AP's are antennaes and the switchis the AP. Last I heard was that it could support 128 users in hardware then after that it ran like a dog in software.

ANSWER:- 2007 possible associations can be held on the switch.

in a much earlier firmware version, Extricom did separate clients via hardware, then with higher contention pass them off to software. this was solely for encryption and not in any way, sha[e or form related to contention/bandwidth resolves/problems. HOWEVER the firmware has changed greatly since then and this is no longer the case with Extricoms solution.

 

9. Cost - the solution is not cheap if you need several switches in several locations.

ANSWER:- True, you get what you pay for.

Remember your not buying 3com, NetGear, Zyxel etc.

you dont get a Jaguar XF for CitroenC3 prices...

Trapeze, Aruba, Cisco, Extricom = same price bracket.

 

10. Their channel is not well trained and leads to price differences between competing resellers. If you have an issue they call Extricom in directly and there are ony two engineers in the whole of the UK...STAY AWAY.

ANSWER:- Completely incorrect. We have (WirelesIT) 11 trained Extricom engineers and we are a Disti. I have numerous reseller accounts whom also have large engineering resource (Extricom trained). we dont need to back everything off to the manufacturer as our (and our resellers) engineers answer the problems for you (again please refer to answer 6 above regarding maintenance contracts. Also i would like to point out that there is competition in any sales market. every product you buy (even between tomatoes and potatoes in Tesco or ASDA) is subject to price competition.

this creates opportunities for businesses to succeed and also for well established companies to recieve the discount structure that they deserve. ultimately providing the end user (client spending their cash) with choice.!!!

 

mission critical environments are the most readily tackled by Extricom over other manufacturers to to its malleability of spreading accross blankets with a possible 216Mbps (across 4 blankets 802.11a,b,g) rather than 54mbps.

Extricom have now also released their N option. i suggest you check it out.

 

you have mentioned to check out the other wireless LAN players and stick to well known names.

 

Motorola - very good indoor and outdoor solution player, good price.

MOTOROLA OWN 20% OF EXTRICOM.

cisco - expensive but may fit with your current architecture

CISCO IS OUTDATED AND SUFFERS FROM CELL BASED ISSUES, EDGE USERS, 802.11b BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE ISSUES WHICH CANNOT BE CLIENT SEPERATED LIKE EXTRICOM CAN ETC ETC ETC.

Aruba - security play is good but you pay for it

YEH, WILL COST YOU APPROX 4 TIMES MORE THAN EXTRICOM (TRUST ME THIS IS MY JOB)

 

Belden/Zyxel - STAY AWAY some of it is Extricom but a different colour

***************

I AGREE, BUT NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE RE-BADGED EXTRICOMS TECHNOLOGY, JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE WHO THEY ARE. CHEAP AND ENTRY LEVEL TECHNOLOGY..

 

in the know... i really hope that this helps resolve your objections towards the Extricom proposition and that i have brought a little more understanding to your idea of how Extricom WLAN works and its benefits over EVERY OTHER MANUFACTURER on the market today.

there is not one other manufacturer that can provide a true single channel blanket (with multiple blankets available) whilst removing the "cell based" architecture for a non disassociate-reassociate client experience.

 

 

please feel free to contact me should i be able to help resolve any more objections, answer any questions or generally just be of wireless assistance.

 

kindest regards

Dean.

[DMcCoy]

So for 5, the answer would be, no it doesn't have QoS then?

 

For 6, if my Procurve controller fails, the redundant backup takes over (not that I've got one yet). NBD replacement isn't quite the same, especially as I never get anything NBD here.

 

7 IS an issue, certainly in the building I'm in. I think it was the first thing that put me off most of the other wireless systems.

[WirelessITDean]

Q5 Yes it has a better non program compicated version of QoS.. = A completely dedicated blanket (entire network.) what better version of QoS can you get ??? ps you can also VLAN the blanket should you wish. same as you would VLAN any other network.

why would you want to divide an already strained wireless network to add QoS when you can simply seperate high packet (or real time) users to their own individual network (1 blanket QoS, 1 Blanket standard date, 2 blankets left for other purposes. etc etc)

 

Q6 add a redundant switch!

Also i suggest that you should choose a supplier that can offer contractual NBD like we (and most of our resellers) do.

each manufacturer will have USP's. (uniique selling points) redundant back up is HP's etc, not a facility which Extricom currently provide.

however if this is a hugely important issue, carry a spare switch.

 

Q7. if you network is installed by a professional network service provider (such as ourselves via our resellers, or by certain resellers too) then this is not an issue. roof cavities, trunking, risers, daedo trunks, etc etc etc.

i am presuming you already have a structured cable infrastructure ??? therfore this was installed at some point, and the Extricom WLAN would be the same... you would not even notice (aesthetically) that the solution had been installed when implemented by a quality installer.

 

is there a particular reason why you feel adding more cable is an issue whilst being hidden, and also where are you in the UK that you cant receive NBD assistance tin this day and age. ???

 

kind regards

Dean

[WirelessITDean]

oh and PS, YES IT DOES HAVE QoS IEE 802.11e

 

so you can have the best of both worlds

 

kind regards

Dean

[DMcCoy]

Q5 Yes it has a better non program compicated version of QoS.. = A completely dedicated blanket (entire network.) what better version of QoS can you get ??? ps you can also VLAN the blanket should you wish. same as you would VLAN any other network.

why would you want to divide an already strained wireless network to add QoS when you can simply seperate high packet (or real time) users to their own individual network (1 blanket QoS, 1 Blanket standard date, 2 blankets left for other purposes. etc etc)

 

Q6 add a redundant switch!

Also i suggest that you should choose a supplier that can offer contractual NBD like we (and most of our resellers) do.

each manufacturer will have USP's. (uniique selling points) redundant back up is HP's etc, not a facility which Extricom currently provide.

however if this is a hugely important issue, carry a spare switch.

 

Q7. if you network is installed by a professional network service provider (such as ourselves via our resellers, or by certain resellers too) then this is not an issue. roof cavities, trunking, risers, daedo trunks, etc etc etc.

i am presuming you already have a structured cable infrastructure ??? therfore this was installed at some point, and the Extricom WLAN would be the same... you would not even notice (aesthetically) that the solution had been installed when implemented by a quality installer.

 

is there a particular reason why you feel adding more cable is an issue whilst being hidden, and also where are you in the UK that you cant receive NBD assistance tin this day and age. ???

 

kind regards

Dean

 

7 is an issue no matter what, it has been hell to get the fixed network out to parts of the building even when running a single fibre. Floors are all concrete, ceilings are concrete.

 

As I've already spent so much getting my normal network to every part of the building it wouldn't make much sense not to use this existing infrastructure to attach wireless points.

 

I wouldn't pick any solution that needed points wired to a central switch so it's not an Extricom failing as such, just a design decision that rules it out. So while it may not be an issue usually this is not the case for all sites.

 

And while many people will offer NDB replacement items to the Isle of Wight many will not actually turn up until the day after.

[Haptic]

lol Incidentley Guy's Cableserve and WirelessITDean are working from the same company after I just had a chat with there office in Cheshire, hmmm funny that hey

[WirelessITDean]

Dear CPLTD

as (if you had read my notices) you will be aware, i have been simply answering questions regarding the Extricom solution.

i am sure that you are also aware of the chain involved in IT sales:-

Vendor

Distributor

Reseller

End User.

 

reseller cant buy from Vendor and Distributor cant sell to end user.

therefore i am not looking for free advertisement as quite honestly we dont need it. !

 

my posts have been to inform other Extricdom interested parties on the true capabilities of this vendors solution and i do this because i have a great understanding of the technology and have been working with Extricom for over 2 years.

 

my details are online for anyone to pose questions to me and contact me for this purpose.

however should i be asked to recommend a reseller for any educational establishment... i could with ease as i currently manage numerous installation accredited Extricom premier partners.

 

now... to answer the user in the isle ... i understand your issues.

 

kind regards

dean

[GrumbleDook]

Guys ... no supplier wars please. A PM will be off to the relevant people shortly. In the meanwhile keep discussions to the benefits or issues with the technology, not with how good a supplier you are.

[kmount]

I remember back in my day we used cup and string to communicate, none of this wireless malarky!