A Good Dalek [SPOILERS]

[Ephelyon]

Having just watched tonight's episode of Doctor Who, something occurred to me during my cig afterwards (yes, I should stop).

 

The plot revolves around the idea of a Good Dalek (note the caps); this being a Dalek who is morally good - and also their equivalent of a misanthropist apparently! - as opposed to a "good Dalek"; this being a ruthless, hateful exterminator. At the end, it says it is not a good/Good Dalek, but the Doctor is.

 

I wonder how it would have written the sentence. Is it saying the Doctor would be a "good Dalek", or is it trying to say that the Doctor is a "Good Dalek"? This being someone who has exterminated on a grand scale (Daleks, Time Lords etc) but who is in fact morally good, and even carried out those exterminations on that basis, rightly or wrongly.

 

I imagine the script intended the former, but I thought the latter could be an interesting idea since the Dalek has after all been inside the Doctor's mind and knows his history; it seems like it would be more in keeping with his character over the decades.

 

Also, the Twelfth Doctor seems a bit depressed so far. Maybe if he worked out later on in the series that it was trying to tell him he was a "Good Dalek" - that being something he was so keen to see come into the universe - he'd feel a little better.

 

What do we think?

Edited August 30, 2014 by Ephelyon

[6Foot2]

Series 1: Dalek:

 

 

Links to tonight's episode [Probably unintentional?]

 

1. A rusty Dalek
   
2. The Doctor would make a good Dalek
   

[Ephelyon]

Ah, cheers for that, I've not seen that series.

 

Maybe the Doctor has made that link himself and is remembering it?

[witch]

Hmm

Not sure on the good/Good issue

What I do know is that I am SICK of the assistant solving the problem - in this case Clara explaining to the Doctor that the key issue was that you could have a Good Dalek

I had hoped that this would stop - it makes a mockery of the Doctor being clever and means that he cannot solve things himself.

[Roberto]

I know what you mean about the assistant solving everything but in this case I thought it made a point about him being blind to what the Dalek could be, because he was blinded by his hatred of what he knew Daleks in general to be. She didn't so much solve the problem for him as give him the external frame of reference he needed to see the solution himself.

[Ephelyon]

I don't know... I'm reminded of Peter Davison's performance when I look at Capaldi (thus far). The Fifth Doctor could be indecisive and vulnerable too, though I suppose in quite a different way. I remember I did think exactly the same thing about tonight's episode while it was airing though.

 

But look at the Doctor now. I suppose an earlier incarnation of him would know he's got a good few lives left, but ultimately there's a set number of them. Whatever you're going to do in your time, there's a limit on how long you'll be around - just as in real life, mortality probably keeps us from adopting a lot of silly attitudes. I think as we get older we base a lot of our morals on "what we'll have done with our life", which inherently assumes a limit on how long it lasts.

 

But at the end of the last season the Doctor was given a new cycle of regenerations, almost implying that if something like that could be given freely (in theory), Time Lords could be immortal as long as nothing "kills them properly", i.e. in a way that regeneration can't cure, or before it completes. I think it's reasonable that he'd be suffering an existential crisis right now; however conflicted he'd been before about whether (over 12 regenerations) he was Good, now he has to deal with potentially the same lifespan all over again. By Matt Smith's last episode he was old and had accepted he was old, and that this was his last face and his last achievement (protecting the town of Christmas). If, as a venerable 90-year-old who'd already accepted there were fewer years ahead than there are behind, you were suddenly told that you had another 90 ahead of you now... how would that affect the way you took stock of your life, your priorities, your achievements (in context), your view of yourself?

 

I think something like that could be in the works for the Doctor, personality-wise, and if he needs to lean on Clara for a bit... well, I suppose we all would. And, to be fair to the character, she does it well.

[Love_Sausage]

Disappointing episode, but then I think the new Doctor persona had a lot to do with it. Hopefully it will settle down soon because Capaldi is excellent, it's the writers that are holding him back.

[E_G_R2]

IMO it was hinting that because of all the deaths that Doctor had been involved with he would make a 'perfect' (my word for good) DALEK but that he also had the chance to be a 'merciful' (my word for good) DALEK. This series seems to be exploring the darker/evil side of the Doctor and that's what the 'missey' arc is about.

[pooley]

I've been a Dr Who fan for a very long time but I have to say this latest series is leaving me a bit cold. I havent enjoyed the storylines, episode 1 I put down to the introduction of Capaldi and Ep2 was annoying, why has the Dr suddenly got to be vulnerable and need help all the time? Also not enjoying Capaldi as the Dr, maybe after a few more episodes he ill grow on me.

[CAM]

This is how I see it:

 

- Doctor believes Daleks are full of hate.

- Clara persuades the Doctor to show a Dalek it can be good.

- Dalek sees nothing but hate in the Doctor causing it to do what the Doctor wants (not necessarily good) by amplifying and exercising it's hatred so much it now hates itself.

- Dalek to the Doctor: "You are a good Dalek" (basically, you are so full of hate there is little separating the Doctor from the Daleks).

 

The episode gives us plenty of insight into the Doctor and how evil he actually is, ripping apart his white knight image and turning it into a very dark shade of grey.

[featured_spectre]

The Dr has committed genocide to ensure the survival of other beings, up to and including his own race of people.

[rich_tech]

Another poor episode I thought overall, Capaldis Dr needs to start "manning up" as hes a bit weak at the moment, though I do like the "moodier" doctor as opposed to the positively chirpy Matt Smith (he wasnt a bad doctor too imo, just too "happy"), Colemans exit can probably only help this get better I am thinking, as Clara is a bit of a "Know it all" type of assistant, whereas in the past the assistants have "tagged along/needed rescuing"

 

Plenty of stuff to "bed in" with the crying teacher and this Missy character, just wish they would start to get on with it a bit now, instead of dragging the transitional stuff over on it.

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Having just watched tonight's episode of Doctor Who, something occurred to me during my cig afterwards (yes, I should stop).

 

The plot revolves around the idea of a Good Dalek (note the caps); this being a Dalek who is morally good - and also their equivalent of a misanthropist apparently! - as opposed to a "good Dalek"; this being a ruthless, hateful exterminator. At the end, it says it is not a good/Good Dalek, but the Doctor is.

 

I wonder how it would have written the sentence. Is it saying the Doctor would be a "good Dalek", or is it trying to say that the Doctor is a "Good Dalek"? This being someone who has exterminated on a grand scale (Daleks, Time Lords etc) but who is in fact morally good, and even carried out those exterminations on that basis, rightly or wrongly.

 

I imagine the script intended the former, but I thought the latter could be an interesting idea since the Dalek has after all been inside the Doctor's mind and knows his history; it seems like it would be more in keeping with his character over the decades.

 

Also, the Twelfth Doctor seems a bit depressed so far. Maybe if he worked out later on in the series that it was trying to tell him he was a "Good Dalek" - that being something he was so keen to see come into the universe - he'd feel a little better.

 

What do we think?

 

For me, the best Dalek episode in a long long time. It reminded me of the episode 'Dalek' from Ecclestone's series.

 

I was immediately struck by the similarities between The Doctor and the Daleks. for me, he is the definition of a Good Dalek. He carries around a whole universe of hatred but - usually - lets his moral compass rule his actions.

 

I say usually because when it comes to fighting the Daleks The Doctor's judgement usually gets distorted slightly...

 

 

 

Hmm

Not sure on the good/Good issue

What I do know is that I am SICK of the assistant solving the problem - in this case Clara explaining to the Doctor that the key issue was that you could have a Good Dalek

I had hoped that this would stop - it makes a mockery of the Doctor being clever and means that he cannot solve things himself.

 

When it comes to the Daleks, The Doctor needs somebody to think clearly for him. There's nothing he hates more and without somebody to influence him he would've done some truly atrocious things in the course of fighting them.

[Zoom7000]

For me, the best Dalek episode in a long long time. It reminded me of the episode 'Dalek' from Ecclestone's series.

 

It did indeed. It made me remember this scene from the "Dalek" Episode:

 

[ICTDirect_Dave]

Yup! Exactly that scene. I was glad it referenced that part

 

We've not seen a Dalek be as devastating in combat since that episode though I want to see that rotating midsection giving them a 360 degree field of fire again.

[6Foot2]

Relevant to this thread:

 

Link: 'Doctor Who' ultimate countdown: Top 25 Dalek stories - CultBox

[Gibbo]

The whole plot seemed stolen from Star Trek TNG for me:

 

I Borg (episode) - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki

 

And then at the end when they showed you a bit of next weeks, that just reminded me of when Q took the TNG bridge crew and put them all in a Robin Hood scenario.