Stop Calling Teachers 'Miss' Or 'Sir', Pupils Are Told - Telegraph

[elsiegee40]

In all schools I went to and worked in, Miss was what was used regardless, unless they used their surname and then the correct Miss or Mrs was used.

 

There is a snifter of a point in titles distinguishing women from being married or not (not Ms obviously) so can see why some would not like that. We men after all don't have such a title to tell people we are married or not (prizes for the person to come up with one!)

 

The thing is that Mrs is no indicator of marriage. Many divorced ladies continue to be Mrs. We have an employee at my school who is called Mrs $husband's_surname and has been for over 20 years, but in fact she and her partner have never married.

 

Going back a few decades Mrs was regularly used a courtesy title for women in positions of authority. Teachers and housekeepers for example would use the title, but they were invariably spinsters.

[X-13]

Seems very Yes, Minister doesn't it.

 

Yes, Sir. I agree, Sir.

 

Wonderful powers of observation, Sir.

 

 

 

 

The whole Mrs/Miss/Ms thing once caused an argument between me and the mum of a friend...

 

She thought that "Ms" was for boys. Didn't believe me when I said it wasn't.

[abillybob]

Absolutely ridiculous, where's the respect on a student calling me Alex, I get it sometimes now and kids walk pas saying "Alright Al" and I give um a quick telling off and tell them to call me Mr $Lastname. I really don't like it and think it always sounds disrespectful when a child uses my first name!

So lets add that to the list, we can't tell them off too much, lay a hand on them, they can call us what they want, get away with all things wrongly doing and then we get stabbed by some little $%!£

It blooming' angers me all that when will all this rubbish stop eventually it'll get to a point where children have such low respect for authoritative figures society will have major issues.

[Ephelyon]

Here the teaching staff refer to each other as Sir/Miss or Mr/Miss in front of the pupils interchangeably here. We're in an area where Mrs sounds like Miss anyway and no-one seems to mind.

 

However, they refer to myself and my Technician by our forenames; consequently, so do the kids. The new Head isn't at all keen on this, but it doesn't look like it's going to stop.

[CAM]

I think that calling adults by their first name is not right - there needs to be a "barrier" of some sort between those in authority and those being taught. If a student calls you by your first name then they are seeing you as being on their level and are less likely to follow instructions as you are a peer and not "above" them.

 

I really don't think the Miss/Mrs/Ms debate even exists. Around here, all female teachers in infant/first schools are generally called Mrs and at senior school it is Miss - never worked out why.

It might be nice if they asked each teacher what they prefer, or as you say, called them all Ms to remove any issues. @elsiegee40 It would be nice to have one's own choice respected - I am Ms - I choose to be so but nobody in either school bothers to even try and remember that.

They also have a tendency to call me by my first name in front of the students which I hate.

 

As for "Ma'am - my father was in the civil service and spent quite a lot of time with the Royal Family - he was taught that in fact you DO pronounce it closer to "mum" and "maaaaam" is completely wrong

 

@CAM How can "Mrs" be for more formal use? It is for married women whereas Miss is for single ones - how can that change depending on the situation?

 

Miss rolls off the tongue quickly, Mrs just seems to add an extra bit of stature and authority (and sounds posher!) making it ideal for more formal situation when speaking to students. Either way I never know the marital status of most staff so getting the right one is tricky and tend to default to Miss. It's how I was brought up.

 

Example: I was dealing with a group of sixth form and getting them started. One moment "Where does Miss Smith keep the lunch passes guys?" Another moment: "Mrs Smith expects X pieces of work complete by the end of the day or you will be returning afterschool Monday to finish it."

Edited May 14, 2014 by CAM

[LosOjos]

Here the teaching staff refer to each other as Sir/Miss or Mr/Miss in front of the pupils interchangeably here. We're in an area where Mrs sounds like Miss anyway and no-one seems to mind.

 

However, they refer to myself and my Technician by our forenames; consequently, so do the kids. The new Head isn't at all keen on this, but it doesn't look like it's going to stop.

 

It was exactly the same here, until a member of SLT called me by my first name in front of all the kids so I responded in kind... not to be awkward, but it does eat away at the respect the students have for us; if they're not expected to call us by title, as they have to with teachers, they surmise that we mustn't be as important as the teachers. Needless to say, she always calls me "Sir/Mr" in front of kids now!

Edited May 14, 2014 by LosOjos
More errors, I have to wake up :doh:

[crc-ict]

Ridiculous idea - no way should students be using staff's first names. As has been said, whatever happened to staff keeping an appropriate distance from pupils?

 

With regards to the Mr/Sir/Mrs/Miss debate, teachers spend a great deal of time and effort to learn the names of the many students they teach, so is it really too much to ask of the students that they bother to learn the proper title and surname for their own teachers?

 

To me, Sir/Miss is just laziness and is almost disrespectful in itself - that the student didn't show enough respect to learn your name.

[witch]

Is it really too much to expect the staff to learn the proper title and surname for their own IT tech?

Apparently it is...

[abillybob]

To me, Sir/Miss is just laziness and is almost disrespectful in itself - that the student didn't show enough respect to learn your name.

 

You honestly think that calling someone Sir and Miss as is disrespectful, I'm quite shocked I always thought it was very polite and professional. I don't think it's laziness I think you'll find a lot of students will know a lot of teachers first names, it's just about showing members of staff respect. I'm fairly shocked you have said that I haven't come across a single person before that think the title Sir/Miss is disrespectful and lazy

[GREED]

Is it really too much to expect the staff to learn the proper title and surname for their own IT tech?

Apparently it is...

 

Don't forget that IT Techs are not equal to teachers...

 

Before I get battered I'm being sarcastic, having worked for 7 years as one!

[AndiMarv]

I work at a Quaker school and in keeping with the Quaker ethos of 'plain speech' and 'Equality' no one in the school is expected to make reference to anyone's title, be it Sir, Miss, Mrs, Dr, or anything.

The new pupils from other schools sometimes still use Miss/Sir but pupils who have been here a term transition quite quickly to using the forenames or sometimes forename and surname of staff members.

 

I don't this this shows a lack of respect on the part of pupils, after all a name is simply a way of verbally distinguishing one person from another it does not serve as the source of some mystical name based respect - respect between adults and children must be earned as much as is true between adults and adults.

 

I refer to my line manager using his first name, also to the head teacher, never once has this caused me to confuse their position of authority.

coming from a person who has been in a place which has done away with titles, my opinion is that it doesn't change a thing - I much prefer people using my name rather than Sir.

[CamelMan]

It was exactly the same here, until a member of SLT called me by my first name in front of all the kids so I responded in kind... not to be awkward, but it does eat away at the respect the students have for us; if they're not expected to call us by title, as they have to with teachers, they surmise that we mustn't be as important as the teachers. Needless to say, she always calls me "Sir/Mr" in front of kids now!

 

I get this from various members of staff and I reply in kind - its never been a problem. The only time I draw the line is when a member of staff sends a pupil to the computer man/IT Bloke/Technician etc. I find that worse than Firstname/surname/Title for some reason!

 

The whole Sir/Madam, Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs is kind of all the same to me and interchangeable (obviously where appropriate!)

[PotNoodleTech]

I really think there are far more important things for schools to be concentrating their time on than this....

[laserblazer]

I really think there are far more important things for schools to be concentrating their time on than this....

 

And possibly ICT Technicians

[Tesla]

You honestly think that calling someone Sir and Miss as is disrespectful, I'm quite shocked I always thought it was very polite and professional. I don't think it's laziness I think you'll find a lot of students will know a lot of teachers first names, it's just about showing members of staff respect. I'm fairly shocked you have said that I haven't come across a single person before that think the title Sir/Miss is disrespectful and lazy

 

I'm sure the students could come up with more fruitful names!

[hardtailstar]

I get called all sorts of things, unless its rude or offensive Im not too worried.

[6Foot2]

Is it really too much to expect the staff to learn the proper title and surname for their own IT tech?

Apparently it is...

 

A school Governor who was arranging an annual event at school many years ago referred to me, when talking to my line manager, as "...your boy..." [As in: "...get your boy to do that..."]

 

The same Governor clicked his fingers at me in an attempt to get my attention. Unhappy at this behaviour [with students in the room] I reported the incident to my line manager. The incident was dismissed with a laugh and no action was taken.

 

It's just RUDE!

[sted]

However, they refer to myself and my Technician by our forenames; consequently, so do the kids. The new Head isn't at all keen on this, but it doesn't look like it's going to stop.

 

thats similar to my take on it i address staff members as mr/miss/mrs $surname$ when kids are around not so much if its an empty room then i will use $firsname$. But i dont like being called mr stead by kids (and im not keen on it outside school tbh). To a degree i much prefer the kids to call me Jonathan as it separates me from the teachers as im not there to "control" the kids and by using just my first name im subtly trying to get that across. As i have no real authority over the kids and as i work in different schools all the time they know me a lot better than i know them (i honestly cant think of a single kids name but its not unusual for kids to go hello Jonathan while im in the school or even asda and make me have to try and think who on earth are you lol). I also dont really want to be asked by the kids the sort of questions they ask teachers (though if one of them wants to ask it/gaming related questions etc and i have nothing better to do and nor do they thats fine)even things like can i go to the toilet because for all i know that kid just wants to get out of a lesson and knows im just going to allow it whereas their teacher would tell them no or at least give them the standard you should of gone at dinner/playtime lecture

[GREED]

A school Governor who was arranging an annual event at school many years ago referred to me, when talking to my line manager, as "...your boy..." [As in: "...get your boy to do that..."]

 

The same Governor clicked his fingers at me in an attempt to get my attention. Unhappy at this behaviour [with students in the room] I reported the incident to my line manager. The incident was dismissed with a laugh and no action was taken.

 

It's just RUDE!

 

Two missed opportunities there.

 

Clicking should have been followed by more with accompanying tune 'Bring me Sunshine'.

 

Boy should have been met with 'I'll go get my boat, hold on' and walked out the room.

[crc-ict]

Is it really too much to expect the staff to learn the proper title and surname for their own IT tech?

Apparently it is...

 

Yes, fair point

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Is it really too much to expect the staff to learn the proper title and surname for their own IT tech?

Apparently it is...

 

Yes, fair point

[Zoom7000]

Everyone called me by my first name at my previous school, primarily because the teachers couldn't remember my surname so they'd just tell the students to go call me by my firstname! When I joined back in 2004 half of year 11 knew me personally because I ran the local football team, so they all called me by my first name anyway!

 

I couldn't imagine calling my school teachers by anything other than Sir/Miss - In fact, if I see them in the street these days, I'll still call them by Sir/Miss - It's a respect thing. I know ex students who came back as teachers at my last place and still called some of their fellow staff who taught them Sir/Miss. I think it's good and helps students to develop some respect. Especially in a time where respect is going out of the window!

Edited May 14, 2014 by Zoom7000

[gmj]

Had a student once greet me with "Alright bud....".

 

Needless to say, after my response to them, it never happened again.

 

I'm Sir now.

[X-13]

It was exactly the same here, until a member of SLT called me by my first name in front of all the kids so I responded in kind... not to be awkward, but it does eat away at the respect the students have for us; if they're not expected to call us by title, as they have to with teachers, they surmise that we mustn't be as important as the teachers. Needless to say, she always calls me "Sir/Mr" in front of kids now!

 

^ This.

 

Though I haven't responded in kind... may have to remember that.

 

 

It's gone from simply being addressed by my first name [someone is actually about to get told off for that] to pupils banging on my office window when a teacher sends them to get me...

 

 

I work at a Quaker school and in keeping with the Quaker ethos of 'plain speech' and 'Equality' no one in the school is expected to make reference to anyone's title, be it Sir, Miss, Mrs, Dr, or anything.

 

I'd be pretty annoyed if, after years of expensive schooling, I had achieved a doctorate and people steadfastly refused to acknowledge it "because reasons".

 

To quote Dr. Evil:

 

"I didn't spend 6 years in evil medical school to be called mister, thank you very much."

[crc-ict]

You honestly think that calling someone Sir and Miss as is disrespectful, I'm quite shocked I always thought it was very polite and professional. I don't think it's laziness I think you'll find a lot of students will know a lot of teachers first names, it's just about showing members of staff respect. I'm fairly shocked you have said that I haven't come across a single person before that think the title Sir/Miss is disrespectful and lazy

 

No - I said almost disrespectful. If you are a member of staff they don't see very often, or are new, then fair enough Sir or Miss is fine. But what about, for example, someone who has been their form tutor for a year or more?

 

Disrespectful is possibly the wrong word, but I think it's reasonable to expect that long term pupils will know their teachers title and surname. They don't call their friends 'boy' and 'girl' (or similar generic terms) after all.

[Garacesh]

Some of the kids have overheard my first name from members of staff, but any child that refers to me by my first name is outright blanked until they use 'Sir'. I don't mind staff using my name in the presence of kids as most kids still have the respect to refer to me as Sir even if they do know what my name is, though oddly I won't use a teacher's first name in the presence of his or her pupils.. Double-standards. Huh.

 

I've only ever had to 'tell off' one kid who was either year 10 or 11 ("Firstly, I am a member of staff and you will address me as such and with respect. Secondly, I am having a discussion with Miss $Surname here, you will be patient and wait for it to finish, are we clear?" - he had a bit of a sulk ) after he repeatedly tried to get my attention both rudely using my first name and trying to interrupt a discussion I was having with his teacher.

 

With regards to the Mr/Miss/Mrs/Ms/Sir debate, I'm quite happy with Sir/Miss personally. I would also accept Sir/Ma'am, (although I'm one of those that pronounces it 'Marmh' rather than 'Mum') if that were 'the norm' here, because it's a lot simpler to use single-syllable titles. Plus I feel the Miss/Ms/Mrs is just over-complicating things. If you identify as female, I'm going to address you with a female title. I'll default to 'Miss' as I usually have no knowledge or interest of your marital status. Plus, Mr and Mrs feel like they should be followed by a surname, they just sound wrong on their own, whereas Sir/Miss/Ma'am doesn't.