Becta take M$ to Office Fair Trading

[Nij.UK]

Becta are taking Microsoft to the office of fair trading over how office is not compatable with other office type packages.

 

Full Report

[mattx]

Yeah - I read about that on The Register:

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/19/becta_reports_ms_schools_deal/

 

Ho Hummmm.....

[Guest Guest]

But arnt Becta the ones who force everyone to use MS anyway?

[webman]

MS will probably have more court appearances now than they have windows hotfixes

 

Excellent news

[Oops_my_bad]

But arnt Becta the ones who force everyone to use MS anyway?

Indeed.. utter hypocrisy

 

I'm sure microsoft will be quivering in their shoes at the thought of Becta taking them to court

[enjay]

Rattling MS's cage is a brave move from Becta considering that their interim report tells schools not to install either Office 2007 or Vista. I can see MS hitting back against that, but hitting harder and with better lawyers than Becta can afford.

 

And since you can get a Mac version of Office plus read the files in the free and cross-platform Open Office, what exactly is the inter-operability problem to which Becta are referring?

[tech_guy]

I pass Becta on the way to work everyday - wondered why there were vultures circling overhead.....

[localzuk]

Rattling MS's cage is a brave move from Becta considering that their interim report tells schools not to install either Office 2007 or Vista. I can see MS hitting back against that, but hitting harder and with better lawyers than Becta can afford.

 

And since you can get a Mac version of Office plus read the files in the free and cross-platform Open Office, what exactly is the inter-operability problem to which Becta are referring?

 

It is down to the fact that the .docx files etc... are unable to be opened by anything else unless specific actions are taken, such as forcing office 2007 to use the old format (which loses some functionality in the saved files) or using converters etc... The document format is not completely open for competitors to implement support for it (so support in openoffice is always going to be buggy etc...)

 

This means several things: If one school updates to office 2007, then other schools will eventually have to update also, in order to be able to communicate with them properly. It also means that, once again, no completely compatible alternative is available.

 

Saying to hold off on Office 2007 and Vista is not going to get any lawyers involved - it is advice from an advisory body. That is what they are there for. Considering something like 90% of the MIS market is taken up by Capita and SIMS.net, which is not completely compatible with 2007 or Vista (ie. not yet supported - parts of the SIMS.net system still use old 16bit code, which does not work on Vista), it would be premature to make the jump. Add into this that complete network lock down control via admx files is not really available until Server 2008, and you have a very good set of reasons not to 'upgrade' yet.

[enjay]

Thanks Localzuk, that makes sense. I can't see it upsetting MS all that greatly though :-)

[localzuk]

Oh, I can! Put it this way - if companies come up with alternatives which are cheaper than Office 2007, and work with SIMS.net - what motivation have schools got to go up to Vista or office 2007?

 

Yes, the amount of money they make from education in the UK is relatively low (a single large corporation like IBM probably generates them far more profit), but it also gets the pupils used to MS products. This knocks on to businesses, as they don't want to have to spend money on retraining new employees who haven't used a specific package.

 

If schools moved to OO.o or Ubuntu or something like that, it could have a significant effect on Microsoft's bottom line (not immediately, but over a period of a 5 years or so).

[enjay]

But how many schools are actually going to move to Ubuntu (and retrain all their users) because Becta told the OFT on Microsoft?

[contink]

But how many schools are actually going to move to Ubuntu (and retrain all their users) because Becta told the OFT on Microsoft?

The problem won't be the kids, it'll be the teachers...

 

It's probably the one thing that MS are counting on to stop any real major changeover to OpenOffice... although I'm giving some serious thought to suggesting we go that route with my primary schools to help cut their budget costs if nought else.

[localzuk]

But how many schools are actually going to move to Ubuntu (and retrain all their users) because Becta told the OFT on Microsoft?

The problem won't be the kids, it'll be the teachers...

 

It's probably the one thing that MS are counting on to stop any real major changeover to OpenOffice... although I'm giving some serious thought to suggesting we go that route with my primary schools to help cut their budget costs if nought else.

 

As am I. I am keeping quiet about it at the moment, but our Microsoft tax is gradually increasing in school.

 

I think a terminal server for things like SIMS.net, and let the rest be done on Ubuntu with the freely available software out there... It'd be a major change and there would undoubtedly be problems, but with some work and some investment (this the key thing - moving to free software isn't going to be a zero cost task) it could and should work.

[nathan]

Whats the percentage of use in regards to say open office and microsoft office 10% to 90%?

 

Do you guys not worry that your kids are going to be learning to use open office and then when they get into the real world have to dive into the office suite as its probs going to be used by business?

 

Just a question?

[CyberNerd]

Do you guys not worry that your kids are going to be learning to use open office and then when they get into the real world have to dive into the office suite as its probs going to be used by business?

 

Just a question?

 

No, Kids should get taught the principles - teaching an application is a bad idea. It's better kids get taught the fundamentals - applications change, but the fundamentals do not, MS wasn't always the dominant Office application, things change, so do interfaces.

[maniac]

Rattling MS's cage is a brave move from Becta considering that their interim report tells schools not to install either Office 2007 or Vista. . . .

 

Whoops, too late for us! We have office 2007 over our entire site now, although it's forced to save in the traditional .DOC file format via a group policy.

 

Mike.

[nathan]

Do you guys not worry that your kids are going to be learning to use open office and then when they get into the real world have to dive into the office suite as its probs going to be used by business?

 

Just a question?

 

No, Kids should get taught the principles - teaching an application is a bad idea. It's better kids get taught the fundamentals - applications change, but the fundamentals do not, MS wasn't always the dominant Office application, things change, so do interfaces.

 

Yeah i see what your saying, and i think your right.

[russdev]

Whats the percentage of use in regards to say open office and microsoft office 10% to 90%?

 

Do you guys not worry that your kids are going to be learning to use open office and then when they get into the real world have to dive into the office suite as its probs going to be used by business?

 

Just a question?

 

Ok not to go into whole this software vrs this software debate I ask you few simple questions.

 

1) When one of your students gets new mobile phone what do most do?

2) When a adult (excluding techies) gets new mobile what do most do?

3) When a student goes on newest social network website what do they not do.

 

Answers Are

1)They start using it and chuck manual in the draw until they run into problem they can't solve.

2)They read manual then turn phone on

3)They ignore the big help button and explore it.

 

We as adults have to get away from this thing of it is different to what they are use to so they won't be able to use it.

 

If ict sats taught us anything it is that students can use anything thrown in front of them they just need time to explore it. School staff has issues over using something not seen before not students.

 

Russell

[nathan]

yeah, as i said in my previous post i really do agree with your logic! i was pretty drunk when i posted before, but im even more drunk now! how sad is that, thinking about work on a friday night when i've just got in!

[plock]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7063716.stm - when reading the article, I was thinking... how many schools are actually using 'Open Source' such as 'Open Office' for example.

 

Personally I would go for it, think of the savings in licensing costs? How many of you would go for it?

 

We are running Office 2003 simply because that's what everyone is used to - but 'Open Office' isn't that different!

 

Let me know your thoughts. Worryingly, it's a Friday night, 12:30am, I'm under the influence of alcohol and I'm still thinking about work!!

[beeswax]

Do you guys not worry that your kids are going to be learning to use open office and then when they get into the real world have to dive into the office suite as its probs going to be used by business?

 

Just a question?

 

No, Kids should get taught the principles - teaching an application is a bad idea. It's better kids get taught the fundamentals - applications change, but the fundamentals do not, MS wasn't always the dominant Office application, things change, so do interfaces.

 

This is partly what the KS3 online tests were all about, and I feel that some of the problems arising from this were directly related to teaching staff not grasping this fact and getting stuck in the "This doesn't look like Word" rut.

 

We recommend Open Office to anyone wanting a suite of applications and not being able to afford the MS product, and give them a brief run through of what it will do.

 

Office 2007? We still have pupils bringing in work done in Works.

[beeswax]

yeah, as i said in my previous post i really do agree with your logic! i was pretty drunk when i posted before, but im even more drunk now! how sad is that, thinking about work on a friday night when i've just got in!

 

You think that's bad? 3 hours ago my plane touched down after a week in Tenerife. Yes it was hot and sunny. Found a great venue for next year's conference out there as well.

[HodgeHi]

I think the biggest problem is the fact that like most posts were hinting towards is that Ofice is used so widely. If Becta stopped forcing the use of Office and MS products down the throats of schools and moved towards Open source or alternative apps then the schools would be able to move. If that makes sense.

 

It starts at the LEAs. They send a document out in .DOC format.

 

Ain't got office to open it correctly?? Oh dear.

 

It's things like this that keep the cycle going. It needs to be across the board. It ain't as if it costs money to change or to even have both.

 

I work in a primary school and have both OS X and XP. OS X runs Neo Office and XP runs Office '03 since we already have the licenses. I won't buy any more though.

 

I found the only thing that Open Office can't do (and neither can Mac Office) is Macros but our kids don't use them anyhow.

 

Like someone said, they take what they learn with them. A word processor is a word processor. Tools may be in a different location but at least they can't take it for granted where everything is. :-)

[Pete10141748]

It starts at the LEAs. They send a document out in .DOC format.

Ain't got office to open it correctly?? Oh dear

 

That happened here last week. Got sent a bunch of .docx's from the LEA, couldn't open them on admin machines as we haven't got 2007 yet. OK, I was able to use the converters but it wasn't ideal.