CHR1S Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 I'm looking to implement a new server as the PDC/GC etc and demote the current 5 year old server to MIS duties (replacing an even older server) and a DFS replica. Spec so far - Server 2012 HP ProLiant ML310e Gen8 - Xeon E3-1220V2 3.1 GHz 2x 500Gb Sata drives mirrored (Maybe SSDs) 4x 3Tb Sata drives in RAID 10 16Gb RAM We primarily have light usage, with more media use and network streaming. We currently deploy with WDS, would it be worth getting System Center 2012 R2? Additionally, would you consider running two virtualised OS' on this hardware? What would be its pros and cons?
ICTDirect_Dave Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 I've got an number of slightly older servers for great prices if you wanted some options? Take a look at the website or drop me an email if you have anything specific in mind
djm968 Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) Primary domain controller - No pun intended! I wouldn’t virtualise the sever, as there is no real advantage in doing so with this size deployment and it will just add an additional layer of complexity. I would suggest, if you haven’t already considered it, that you look at the current switching and network infrastructure, improvements here can offer a significant performance increase for modest outlay and can often be attributed to the poor performance of the “network” Edited June 4, 2013 by djm968
FishCustard Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 I'd advise against using SCCM 2012 R2 in such a small deployment unless you've got lots of experience already, as it's quite a complex thing to use for the benefits you get. I'd go for WSUS+Local Update Publisher for updates/apps, and MDT+WDS for deployment.
djm968 Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 You still running NT then... No the OP is looking for advice for a server solution for a Primary School! I thought you were asking a genuine question and you were about to post a valued opinion….. obviously I was wrong!
SHimmer45 Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 (edited) put a new server in a small primary last year. used a single socket Xeon HP DL360 with 8GB RAM and R5 (around 300GB in size) not virtual but for what the school needed its ideal (25 desktops some laptops) been bomb proof so far and was very impressed with the pricing and the software tools for the HP kit they only have around 150GB of data currently and thats going back over (in some cases) 6-7 years of old resources and such like so your storage spec has ALOT of room for growth Edited June 4, 2013 by SHimmer45
CHR1S Posted June 4, 2013 Author Posted June 4, 2013 @djm968 were running managed Cisco switches, 1Gb fiber backbone and 100Mb to the desktops, not really seeing any usage issues in solarwinds to warrant the upgrade.
sparkeh Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 I wouldn’t virtualise the sever, as there is no real advantage in doing so with this size deployment I would, benefits of simplified DR are worth it alone. 1
CHR1S Posted June 4, 2013 Author Posted June 4, 2013 they only have around 150GB of data currently and thats going back over (in some cases) 6-7 years of old resources and such like so your storage spec has ALOT of room for growth With the price of drives I would rather over spec. We currently have about 600Gb knocking around, just thinking what our use would be like in 5 years at EOL.
Dragon Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 I would, benefits of simplified DR are worth it alone. and for migration later when the hardware needs replacing.
CHR1S Posted June 4, 2013 Author Posted June 4, 2013 I would, benefits of simplified DR are worth it alone. I'm swinging towards at least 1 virtualised DC, I have a Microserver that has several VMs of various bits and bobs that would run a DR in an emergency.
djm968 Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 I would, benefits of simplified DR are worth it alone. IMHO virtualisation for simplified DR only really makes sense if you are running more than one physical host in a farm. But what do I know.... "i'm still running NT"
djm968 Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 I'm swinging towards at least 1 virtualised DC, I have a Microserver that has several VMs of various bits and bobs that would run a DR in an emergency. Yes, virtualisation in that case makes much more sense.
Michael Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 I'm looking to implement a new server as the PDC/GC etc and demote the current 5 year old server to MIS duties (replacing an even older server) and a DFS replica. Spec so far - Server 2012 HP ProLiant ML310e Gen8 - Xeon E3-1220V2 3.1 GHz 2x 500Gb Sata drives mirrored (Maybe SSDs) 4x 3Tb Sata drives in RAID 10 16Gb RAM We primarily have light usage, with more media use and network streaming. We currently deploy with WDS, would it be worth getting System Center 2012 R2? Additionally, would you consider running two virtualised OS' on this hardware? What would be its pros and cons? The spec is absolutely fine - as for 2012, I would recommend you wait until Windows 8.1 is released. Odds are they'll be a Server 2012.1 released too fixing a whole range of issues.
MikeGilbert Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 I'm looking to implement a new server as the PDC/GC etc and demote the current 5 year old server to MIS duties (replacing an even older server) and a DFS replica. Spec so far - Server 2012 HP ProLiant ML310e Gen8 - Xeon E3-1220V2 3.1 GHz 2x 500Gb Sata drives mirrored (Maybe SSDs) 4x 3Tb Sata drives in RAID 10 16Gb RAM We primarily have light usage, with more media use and network streaming. We currently deploy with WDS, would it be worth getting System Center 2012 R2? Additionally, would you consider running two virtualised OS' on this hardware? What would be its pros and cons? RAID 10? Why not RAID5? And use SAS rather than SATA for the System drives, just to give a bit better resilience and speed.
SHimmer45 Posted June 4, 2013 Posted June 4, 2013 With the price of drives I would rather over spec. We currently have about 600Gb knocking around, just thinking what our use would be like in 5 years at EOL. indeed better to have plenty of space, id also would have like to have a "hot spare" even if it wasnt plugged it for the "just in case" moment of a disk dying and there is an issue getting a part or the warranty has expired. this is something i am starting to do as getting hold of older disks is a pain
CHR1S Posted June 6, 2013 Author Posted June 6, 2013 (edited) Seems that some companies quoting so far feel that either the spec I'm listing is too low for the users (Max 70 machines - approx 40 concurrent with the odd laptop now and then) and/or my budget is too low. I'm looking at a budget of £1400 ex vat. With the weak link being the SATA drives, would you go SAS? Edited June 6, 2013 by CHR1S
SHimmer45 Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 i think the companies who are saying the spec is "too" low are just trying to get you to spend more money... you might find you need to trim back the spec a little but still buy a system which allows expansion later (say in another year or so) that way you can add extras as more cash becomes available. Or the other option is to say "this" is the cost of achieving your requirements. just dug out the spec of the server i put in a primary and its: HP DL360 G7 1x E5620 Quad (dual capable) 6GB RAM 3x 300GB SAS 10K Disks (600GB total size) Server 2k8r2 license this came in at £1800.00 and this was at the end of 2011 so i dont think your budget it that unreasonable
CHR1S Posted June 6, 2013 Author Posted June 6, 2013 i think the companies who are saying the spec is "too" low are just trying to get you to spend more money... you might find you need to trim back the spec a little but still buy a system which allows expansion later (say in another year or so) that way you can add extras as more cash becomes available. Or the other option is to say "this" is the cost of achieving your requirements. just dug out the spec of the server i put in a primary and its: HP DL360 G7 1x E5620 Quad (dual capable) 6GB RAM 3x 300GB SAS 10K Disks (600GB total size) Server 2k8r2 license this came in at £1800.00 and this was at the end of 2011 so i dont think your budget it that unreasonable I'm trying to convince myself that 10K SAS drives are not necessary - still torn!
localzuk Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 I'd say that SATA will do you fine, for that number of computers, or nearline SAS if you want to go a bit better. SAS is, IMO, overkill for your number of clients. We've run our storage here off SATA for 7 years and it has been perfectly fine. We've shifted to SAS now, as we've doubled the network size since the SATA server was bought. I'd say get plenty of RAM. RAM is cheap. Storage is also cheap - RAID 10 is better than RAID 5 - so your plan is a fair one. However, something to note here - the server you've specified doesn't have spare bays for 6 drives. It has 4 3.5" bays and a single 5.25" bay spare.
SHimmer45 Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 for me i wouldnt put SATA drives in a "front line" server not only because of the seek times etc but also alot of SATA drives arent rated as high in terms of the MTBF. but as others have said your not dealing with a large amount of clients having support for SAS later if your budget wont accommodate it the drives now is something worth checking
localzuk Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 for me i wouldnt put SATA drives in a "front line" server not only because of the seek times etc but also alot of SATA drives arent rated as high in terms of the MTBF. but as others have said your not dealing with a large amount of clients having support for SAS later if your budget wont accommodate it the drives now is something worth checking In this case, I'd say look at nearline SAS then. They have SAS like MTBF but SATA like performance.
SHimmer45 Posted June 6, 2013 Posted June 6, 2013 In this case, I'd say look at nearline SAS then. They have SAS like MTBF but SATA like performance. this if you have to compromise
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